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captacl
Joined: 30 Sep 2014 Posts: 37 Location: Bethlehem, PA USA
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:45 am Post subject: |
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It would seem my LHBS was able to get Northdown and Carmel 90L for me so I can brew this exactly the way you have in your recipe. I did notice that you don't use gelatin since this yeast flocuates so well. Since I have the ability to do so while in the conical, should I still crash chill for a couple days after the dry hop period is complete. Or is it not worth the time and I should just go straight to kegging after the dry hop period. Thanks
Anthony
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:17 am Post subject: |
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I don't think the crash chill will give you much, but no harm in doing so either.
Kal
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stickyfinger
Joined: 04 May 2014 Posts: 176 Location: hudson valley, NY
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I just had a Fuller's ESB on tap last Friday. As I always am when I taste this beer, I'm amazed at how fruity it is from the yeast. Can the WLP002 achieve those levels of fruitiness? Maybe it is the combination of malt and yeast that accentuates it? I've never had a beer as fruity. Maybe the darker crystal contributes to it.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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The yeast plays a big part. To quote Wyeast:
Quote: | YEAST STRAIN: 1968 | London ESB Ale™
A very good cask conditioned ale strain, this extremely flocculant yeast produces distinctly malty beers. Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish. Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74°F (21-23° C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete. Bright beers are easily achieved within days without any filtration. |
(WYeast 1968 is the same as White Labs WLP-002)
Kal
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stickyfinger
Joined: 04 May 2014 Posts: 176 Location: hudson valley, NY
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | The yeast plays a big part. To quote Wyeast:
Quote: | YEAST STRAIN: 1968 | London ESB Ale™
A very good cask conditioned ale strain, this extremely flocculant yeast produces distinctly malty beers. Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish. Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74°F (21-23° C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete. Bright beers are easily achieved within days without any filtration. |
Kal |
I just used this yeast for a porter. I kept it at 68F for about 5-6 days and then 1 degree/day up to 72 at the end. It definitely has a light fruitiness but very controlled. Maybe to make an ESB it would be good to try starting at 68 and then boosting it after 36 hours or so. Was yours fruity enough?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I tend to ferment this at 68F or so and have always been happy with the results. I bought a few cans (not as good as on tap, I know) back when I was first working on it and could barely tell the difference between the canned and my version here. Very subtle differences. I don't remember the amount of fruitiness being any different.
One of the benefits of making it yourself - you can play around with the esters (fruitiness) by changing the fermentation temp. Try 62-64F for something cleaner tasting, or 72-74F for more esters.
Definitely one of my favourite yeasts.
Kal
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stickyfinger
Joined: 04 May 2014 Posts: 176 Location: hudson valley, NY
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Have you compared 1968 vs wlp002 vs S-04? I love S-04 for english ESBs. It really makes the malt incredible!
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yes - I did a split batch of this recipe some years back where half was Fullers yeast (WY1968) and the other half was S-04. I was hoping that S-04 would get me close enough / that I'd like it enough to use it from now on for my ESBs and Bitters as it's so much easier to use dry yeast.
Unfortunately I found I really preferred the fruity smoothness of WY1968 over S-04, so I'm sticking with WY1968/WLP002.
YMMV of course. There was nothing "wrong" with the S-04, I simply greatly preferred the WY1968.
Kal
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stickyfinger
Joined: 04 May 2014 Posts: 176 Location: hudson valley, NY
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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interesting.
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captacl
Joined: 30 Sep 2014 Posts: 37 Location: Bethlehem, PA USA
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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I was just reviewing everything since I plan to brew this on Friday and the water profile has me scratching my head. How does one get those numbers. I just can't seem to find a way to get the calcium up that high without the sulfate and Chloride being much higher then you have listed. Are the actual numbers not important as long as you meat the minimum recommended values for everything and the Chloride to Sulfate Ratio. I was able to keep the 1:2 ratio but my final profile looks more like this:
Ca=78 Mg=14 Na=4 Cl=68 SO4=136
The other question I have is about dry hopping. In general, is there an upper limit to how long you should keep the finished beer on the dry hops. Lets say I could do 7 days do to my schedule and either had to settle for 5 days or take it all the way to 10 days. Which would be the better choice. I would guess there is a minimum time needed to allow the hops you add to settle to the bottom.
Anthony
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:34 am Post subject: |
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captacl wrote: | I was just reviewing everything since I plan to brew this on Friday and the water profile has me scratching my head. How does one get those numbers. |
What are the starting numbers for your water?
Quote: | The other question I have is about dry hopping. In general, is there an upper limit to how long you should keep the finished beer on the dry hops. |
Not really. Depends on the hops, the beer, temperature, lots of other factors that aren't completely understood. More of a art than a science.
Quote: | Lets say I could do 7 days do to my schedule and either had to settle for 5 days or take it all the way to 10 days. |
If I had to guess, it probably wouldn't make much a difference.
Kal
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stickyfinger
Joined: 04 May 2014 Posts: 176 Location: hudson valley, NY
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:21 am Post subject: |
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captacl wrote: |
The other question I have is about dry hopping. In general, is there an upper limit to how long you should keep the finished beer on the dry hops. Lets say I could do 7 days do to my schedule and either had to settle for 5 days or take it all the way to 10 days. Which would be the better choice. I would guess there is a minimum time needed to allow the hops you add to settle to the bottom.
Anthony |
I haven't had problems leaving dry hops for 14-16 days when the beer is stored in the 60s F. Shorter may work, but I've always heard that too much over 14 days and you risk grassiness. You can get incredible hop aroma/flavor from dry hopping at 14 days, so try that.
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captacl
Joined: 30 Sep 2014 Posts: 37 Location: Bethlehem, PA USA
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:27 am Post subject: |
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My starting water is Ca=4.4 Mg=2.6 Na=3.5 Cl=0 SO4=3.5
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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captacl wrote: | Are the actual numbers not important as long as you meat the minimum recommended values for everything and the Chloride to Sulfate Ratio. |
True. That is basically what I was doing with my numbers. As mentioned in the recipe it's basically Randy Mosher's ideal Pale Ale numbers that I use with hop forward American styles, but with slightly less Sulphate and a Cl:S04 ratio of 1:2. Your water is very close to distilled so it's a bit different. Maybe a bit of salt NaCl would help (not sure as EZwater no longer allows for salt additions). If you have other calculators available you can try those. All that said, your final numbers you posted previously I'm sure will work well. I'd certainly be happy with them.
Good luck!
Kal
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captacl
Joined: 30 Sep 2014 Posts: 37 Location: Bethlehem, PA USA
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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So I noticed that wyeast suggests a thorough diacytal rest after fermentation. Does that mean I need to increase the temp or do they just mean the beer should be left on the yeast after fermentation. I brewed on Friday and was going to dry hop on Saturday and start the crash chill the following Friday. I would think that should be enough time on the yeast at about 67 degrees. I did not plan to dump any yeast till after the cold crash. Thoughts?
Anthony
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huaco
Joined: 05 Apr 2012 Posts: 1506 Location: Burleson Texas
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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At the tail-end of active fermentation, raise the temp naturally over a day or two to bring it up to 70-72°F. Let it sit there for a few days. The most successful way to preform a D-Rest is to catch the yeast while they are still active before they drop out and take a snooze!
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stickyfinger
Joined: 04 May 2014 Posts: 176 Location: hudson valley, NY
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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captacl wrote: | So I noticed that wyeast suggests a thorough diacytal rest after fermentation. Does that mean I need to increase the temp or do they just mean the beer should be left on the yeast after fermentation. I brewed on Friday and was going to dry hop on Saturday and start the crash chill the following Friday. I would think that should be enough time on the yeast at about 67 degrees. I did not plan to dump any yeast till after the cold crash. Thoughts?
Anthony |
I think it's good practice to raise the temperature on all ales at the end of fermentation to drive down the gravity and promote a thorough cleanup of by-products; however, I've had success removing diacetyl leaving it at main fermentation temp or by raising it at the end. The English yeasts usually kick out some serious diacetyl. However, I've noticed it drops away very quickly, so if you are trying to catch just the right amount of diacetyl in your beer, you have to time it to the day. I usually just let the yeast get rid of all of the diacetyl (below my taste threshold.) If you are worried about it, you can just take a sample out of the fermenter and evaluate it. That will tell you quickly whether you still have diacetyl.
You indicated you brewed last Friday and were planning on adding dry hops to the fermenter after 8 days and then let that sit for another 6 days? I can't imagine you will have diacetyl after that long unless your fermentation was weak.
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captacl
Joined: 30 Sep 2014 Posts: 37 Location: Bethlehem, PA USA
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | You indicated you brewed last Friday and were planning on adding dry hops to the fermenter after 8 days and then let that sit for another 6 days? I can't imagine you will have diacetyl after that long unless your fermentation was weak. |
That is what I was planning but I am open to suggestions. Kal didn't mention raising the temp near the end so I figured I should just ferment this one like the rest of the recipes. Dry hopping at about the week mark and leaving the beer on the yeast for about 14 days. Is not having any diacetyl a bad thing? I thought that was an unwanted byproduct. Fermentation as already slowed quite a bit based on airlock activity. It was going crazy for a few days. I haven't checked the gravity yet so not sure where its at in that regard but if I need to increase temp I should probably do that tonight.
If you think that is too long I could add the dry hops tonight or have my dad do it for me prior to saturday (I will not be home till Sat). Thanks for you input guys
Anthony
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stickyfinger
Joined: 04 May 2014 Posts: 176 Location: hudson valley, NY
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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captacl wrote: |
That is what I was planning but I am open to suggestions. Kal didn't mention raising the temp near the end so I figured I should just ferment this one like the rest of the recipes. Dry hopping at about the week mark and leaving the beer on the yeast for about 14 days. Is not having any diacetyl a bad thing? I thought that was an unwanted byproduct. Fermentation as already slowed quite a bit based on airlock activity. It was going crazy for a few days. I haven't checked the gravity yet so not sure where its at in that regard but if I need to increase temp I should probably do that tonight.
If you think that is too long I could add the dry hops tonight or have my dad do it for me prior to saturday (I will not be home till Sat). Thanks for you input guys
Anthony |
Some people like a little diacetyl. Ever have Shipyard Beers (from Maine)? They have some diacetyl, and it give the beers a nice character, though it takes some getting used to maybe. I think diacetyl could be nice at low levels in some beers. I would just eliminate the diacetyl from the flavor until you finesse the recipe more. It's just a matter of personal preference. Your plan sounds fine to me, shouldn't have any problems. Just take a sample if you're worried.
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g8tors
Joined: 05 Oct 2011 Posts: 211
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Man this yeast works fast! Brewed 6 gals on Friday at 1.057 and after seeing no bubbling last night I took a SG and got 1.011. I plan on adding the dry hops tonight so maybe this will be ready to keg by Sunday. The sample I took last night tasted great!
Scott
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