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Russian River Pliny The Elder Double IPA
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violette04963




Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 1
Location: Oakland/ Sidney Maine


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Post fermentation procedure for IPAs Reply with quote


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Kal, Curious to know your procedure/ process for packaging/ kegging hoppy IPAs to both minimize cold side post fermentation oxidation and end up with a clear beer. Do you “cold crash”? Secondary? Add gelatin? Or just wait, transfer to CO2 purged keg with a hop stopper on the dip tube. Thanks in advance! I appreciate the detailed recipes.

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Post fermentation procedure for IPAs Reply with quote

violette04963 wrote:
Kal, Curious to know your procedure/ process for packaging/ kegging hoppy IPAs to both minimize cold side post fermentation oxidation and end up with a clear beer. Do you “cold crash”? Secondary? Add gelatin? Or just wait, transfer to CO2 purged keg with a hop stopper on the dip tube. Thanks in advance! I appreciate the detailed recipes.

Hi and welcome to the forum! See the "notes/process" section right after any of my recipes. I detail step by step what I do in terms of process right from brew day up until packaging. There will be slight variations from beer to beer as well, depending on how many hop additions I have, or in the case of this beer the process I used to employ for the 2004 version is slightly different from the 2019 version. Cheers!

Kal

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GozzieBoy




Joined: 27 Apr 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Carolina


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, I note that most of your recipes call for a 14.9 gal. pre-boil vol. and a 12 gal. post boil volume to achieve a c.10 gallon packaged volume. Given the huge amount of hops in the fermenter, I would guess that this recipe would need a larger post boil volume to net out 10 gallons in the keg. Has this volume worked well, or should a somewhat larger volume be helpful? I'd rather tap some good experience on this rather than to guess blindly. Thx.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GozzieBoy wrote:
Kal, I note that most of your recipes call for a 14.9 gal. pre-boil vol. and a 12 gal. post boil volume to achieve a c.10 gallon packaged volume. Given the huge amount of hops in the fermenter, I would guess that this recipe would need a larger post boil volume to net out 10 gallons in the keg.

No - the 12 gallons post boil accounts for that. Works well for me with heavily hopped beers like this to get exactly 10 gallons in the kegs.

In fact, the 12 gallons is the extreme case to ensure you always get *at least* 10 gallons packaged. Some of the recipes here with lower hop loads (Kolsch, Blonde Ale, Weizen, Wit, etc) could be lowered to 11 gallons post boil by starting with 1 gallon less pre-boil. That's in fact what I do, but for the sake consistency all the recipes here are 12 gallons post boil to avoid confusing people.

Cheers!

Kal

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GozzieBoy




Joined: 27 Apr 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Carolina


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the very timely response! I was just completing my design and materials bill, and can now get on the road with this fascinating brew. Can't wait!!
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enjoy your brew day! It's a great beer - one I don't brew often enough! (Last time was April 2019 - some brew day videos in the recipe).

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new 2019 version of the recipe had incorrect dry hop amounts (cut & paste error on my part from the original 2004 version). Now fixed. Sorry about that!

Kal

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rivetcatcher




Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 132
Location: Thailand

Drinking: Way Out Wheat - Mindcircus

Working on: Zombie Dust


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been reading a few articles recently bout Pliny The Elder with some indicating that the bitterness has been toned down slightly.

https://www.bertusbrewery.com/2015/10/pliny-elder-40.html

and a CBB review shows the 2020 version with an IBU of 80, whereas a previous review they did had it at 100. https://beerandbrewing.com/review/pliny-the-elder-2020/

Ive never tasted this but a few friends have asked me to brew it. I was thinking of toning the bitterness down and reducing the SO4 slightly. In the past highly bitter IPAs were something that I bought, brewed and drank regularly. However, with the trend in recent years being juicy, less bitter hazys, I'm worried that a recipe like this may not go down so well with the guys who are asking for it.

Whats your thoughts on this? Would you be tempted to make any tweaks to the recipe? I dont want to alter it completely as I still want Pliny but at the same time I definitely want it to be palatable to todays tastes. If the articles quoted above are anything to go by, it seems RR may have also considered this as well.

Rivet
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pliny (the commercial version) is definitely a beer that has changed over the years. Russian River's been very forthcoming about that.

If you take a look at my recipe page for it you'll see that I have two versions: The original 2004 version recipe that was handed out at the 2004 National Homebrew Competition by Vinnie Cilurzo himself, as well as a revised 2019 version that is more in line with what they're brewing today.

See: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/russian-river-pliny-the-elder-double-ipa

Which one is better? Brew both and let us know! Wink

rivetcatcher wrote:
and a CBB review shows the 2020 version with an IBU of 80, whereas a previous review they did had it at 100.

Keep in mind too that nobody's going to notice a difference between 80 and 100 IBU. Focus on flavour first. That is key. All that the measured IBU change tells us is that they've made changes to the recipe. I wouldn't be concerned too much about IBU changes at that level.

You can certainly go with more of a New England (hazy) type water adjustment too with lower SO4. There are no rules here. Brew what you like!

Kal

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rivetcatcher




Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 132
Location: Thailand

Drinking: Way Out Wheat - Mindcircus

Working on: Zombie Dust


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Kal.

I dont think I would go as far as a NEIPA type water adjustment but maybe something to try and round the bitterness a little bit more.

When you made this did you find it very bitter or well balanced?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rivetcatcher wrote:
I dont think I would go as far as a NEIPA type water adjustment but maybe something to try and round the bitterness a little bit more.

When you made this did you find it very bitter or well balanced?

I haven't made either of my Pliny recipes listed with NEIPA type water, but I have made my Electric Hop Candy (NEIPA) with half a dozen or so different water adjustments from my "standard" hoppy American IPA all the way towards my NEIPA type water as documented in my WATER ADJUSTMENT guide. All were great beers, but how "NEIPA" they were depended on what I did. You can read more in my recipe here:

https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/electric-hop-candy-new-england-ipa-neipa

I know I say this over and over, but I recommend trying this yourself and judging for yourself. What other do and deem as appropriate for anything taste related is all up to opinion. There are no right or wrong answers. It depends what you're after, it depends on your taste buds. Brew it 2-3-4-5 times altering variables and see what you like. What's bitter or balanced completely depends on the individual. It's all correct, it's all good!

Kal

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rivetcatcher




Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 132
Location: Thailand

Drinking: Way Out Wheat - Mindcircus

Working on: Zombie Dust


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bought all the ingredients for this one. Only hop I couldn't get was Apollo for bittering so will probably increase the 90min Columbus addition to reach the recommended IBU.... if anyone recommends a better alternative I'd be happy to give it a go.

This beer has been on my radar for years so finally making it in time for Xmas!!!
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rivetcatcher wrote:
Bought all the ingredients for this one. Only hop I couldn't get was Apollo for bittering so will probably increase the 90min Columbus addition to reach the recommended IBU.... if anyone recommends a better alternative I'd be happy to give it a go.

That will certainly work. It's likely used as it is a super high-alpha hop variety (less is required which soaks up less wort and reducing the chance of vegetal taste), with a low cohumulone level (clean bittering) making it an excellent bittering hop. Magnum and Warrior are other common bittering hop additions you could use instead. Good luck with the brew day!

Kal

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rivetcatcher




Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 132
Location: Thailand

Drinking: Way Out Wheat - Mindcircus

Working on: Zombie Dust


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Kal, Ill let you know how it goes
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rivetcatcher




Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 132
Location: Thailand

Drinking: Way Out Wheat - Mindcircus

Working on: Zombie Dust


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally got this brewed and it was ready just in time for Christmas Day. Now I have nothing to compare this to as I haven’t tried the original, however I’m very happy with the result.

A keg was also put on in my local bar where it went down well… to quote one of the customers “now that’s a proper beer”. And I get exactly what he means. It’s not a modern day tropical, juicy hazy ipa. It is a proper old school IPA. Well balanced with a lot of depth.

The strength is there, the bitterness is there but it has a nice rich, malty backbone balancing it all out. Despite the high IBU, it’s not screw your face up bitter… it just works.

Happy with this one.

Cheers Kal
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear you and your customers are enjoying it - that's great!

Kal

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