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30A Control Panel (240V only, for int'l use)
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ludicrous_larry




Joined: 27 Dec 2018
Posts: 2
Location: Naples, Italy


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Kal,
Excellent!!! Thank you for your reply and sharing with all. That is a great price on the pump (and a good description that addresses its use with your system) but I am going to go with the tri-clamp version (what you sell with custom weld job).
Cheers,
Robb
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ludicrous_larry wrote:
Excellent!!! Thank you for your reply and sharing with all. That is a great price on the pump (and a good description that addresses its use with your system) but I am going to go with the tri-clamp version (what you sell with custom weld job).

Sure! Keep in mind that on the hot side of the brewing process (what we use pumps for here) there's no benefit to sanitary (tri-clamp) fittings as everything is boiled. To each their own, but I prefer simpler to use quick disconnects. I only say this because I see more and more people going with harder to use/more expensive tri-clamp fittings for hoses on the boil side when they don't understand that there's no benefit (only added cost and difficulty of use). Cheers!

Kal

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dank




Joined: 09 Jun 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Brisbane, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal-
I'm putting together my 240V control panel kit supplied with the adjustable 85-264V DC power supplies mounted on a DIN rail. Do you or the Spike lads have a wiring diagram to accommodate this? I can only find example diagrams with the older style doorbell transformer and AC/DC power supply.
cheers, Dan
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dank wrote:
Kal-
I'm putting together my 240V control panel kit supplied with the adjustable 85-264V DC power supplies mounted on a DIN rail. Do you or the Spike lads have a wiring diagram to accommodate this? I can only find example diagrams with the older style doorbell transformer and AC/DC power supply.
cheers, Dan

Hi Dan,
Wiring diagrams are the same - the only difference is that the transformers and AC/DC power supplies are combined into one unit. There’s a 2-wire AC input and then a 2-wire DC output. An adjustable control sets the outlet voltage. The 2 AC power inputs are connected to 120V AC hot and neutral just like the doorbell transformer before, and then a DC output supplies +5DC (adjustable) and GND just like the 'regular' power supply. That's it.

Check out the printed addendum that was included in your kit too - it has pictures and further instructions.

Cheers!

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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dank




Joined: 09 Jun 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Brisbane, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal.
You're a legend.
cheers, Dan
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have fun with the build Dan!

Kal

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jpcoelho29




Joined: 10 May 2022
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
hambräu wrote:
I have a question concerning L and N wire coming out of my socket and which will power my control Panel.
If I wire the control Panel as described here, does it matter where I put at the 220v input L (hot) and N (neutral)?

Yes - live and neutral should be properly connected. Live in the panel should be connected to the live connection in the wall while neutral in the panel should be connected to the neutral in the wall. While technically it may be able to 'work' with the two reversed, that should not be done for safety reasons.

Quote:
As I can turn my socket how does it influence the control panel?

You should not be able to turn the wall plug as it should have 3 spades: live, neutral, and ground. Because there needs to be 3 connection points the plug can only be plugged in one way.

Welcome to the forum Jan and good luck with your build! If you're interested in a complete control panel kit with all the parts please let us know. We have pre-punched and professionally powder coated enclosures available too.

Cheers,

Kal


Hi everyone!

I'm looking forward to go full electric, so I'm planning to build a 16A 220V control panel for a BIAB system, using a 3200w heating element and a 10w 220V magnetic pump (16A is the maximum in my outlets and I don't want to do any eletrical modifications in my house). I've been studying several threads to understand how Kal's system work an steal some ideas.

However, I've become a liitle confused by the discussion above. Here in Portugal, at least, the convention is the live is wired at right and the neutral at left. We use type F plugs and type C sockets (aka Schuko), and it really doesn't matter the position in wich we plug, because theres no polarization, so everything works just fine and safely. Shouldn't be the same for the control panel?

My electrical knowledge is limited, probably I'am asking something nonsense ...

King regards!
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 10, 2022 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi and welcome to the forum!

You're referring to CEE 7 standard AC plugs and sockets. More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEE_7_standard_AC_plugs_and_sockets

Quote:

"Because they have no earth connections they have been or are being phased out in most countries. The regulations of countries using the CEE 7/3 and CEE 7/5 socket standards vary in whether CEE 7/1 sockets are still permitted in environments where the need for earthing is less critical. Sweden, for example, prohibited them from new installations in 1994. In Germany unearthed sockets are rare, whereas in the Netherlands and Sweden it is still common to find them in "dry areas" such as in bedrooms or living rooms. Some countries prohibit use of unearthed and earthed sockets in the same room, in the "insulated room" concept, so that people cannot touch an earthed object and one that has become live, at the same time."

jpcoelho29 wrote:
...because theres no polarization, so everything works just fine and safely. Shouldn't be the same for the control panel?

Not having a ground or polarization is definitely less safe. It's why it's being phased out in most countries.

I don't know the safety standards in Portugal but I would highly suggest that whatever you build be correctly polarized and have a ground. That is the safest. A brewing system isn't a simple low power desk lamp or similar, and it's high power and definitely in a wet area. It should most definitely be grounded and GFCI protected.

Cheers!

Kal

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T-Bone




Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 25
Location: Kinglake, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

I built my control panel around 8 years ago now and i'm looking at making a few changes to it and just wanted to ask something about the heating element.

I built the 240v version as i am in Australia. We officially have 230v though it obviously fluctuates as all supplies do.
I used a Blichmann boil coil which is rated as 5kw @240v so this translates to ~4.6kw @230v which is nearly 1000w less than what users of the camco element that are on 240v supply are enjoying. Quite a bit less power.

I'm wandering if there is any issue in sourcing a local AU rated 5.5kw @230v element and using that.
By my calculations this would draw a fraction under 24amps. Should voltage fluctuate upward to 253v which is the maximum allowed range (230v +10/-6) the current would increase to 26.3amps.
It seems to me that this is exactly how it's being used in the US so unless i'm missin something I cant see an issue but would love some feedback .

I'm very much interested in doing this as it's going to give me a huge power increase from my current boil coil setup. This is only for the HLT to increase ramp times. The BK will stay as is.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

Quote:
I'm wandering if there is any issue in sourcing a local AU rated 5.5kw @230v element and using that. By my calculations this would draw a fraction under 24amps. Should voltage fluctuate upward to 253v which is the maximum allowed range (230v +10/-6) the current would increase to 26.3amps.
It seems to me that this is exactly how it's being used in the US so unless i'm missin something I cant see an issue but would love some feedback .

Will work fine as long as you stay below 240V which is 23.9 amp current draw. If the voltage goes as high as 253V then you may be drawing too much as that 26.3 amps plus two pumps running may put you above the 30A limit.

That would be quite surprising if the voltage went that high however. Does the power really fluctuate that high? Normally it'll sag (drop) under load in most places as load goes up due to usage (hot days with lots of air conditioner usage) and going above rated usually never happens. Electrical service companies tend to very closely regulate the power, especially on the high side.

Are you sure you're at 230V as well? Nominal voltage in Australia is 230 V, but in practice 240 V is more commonly used.

Kal

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T-Bone




Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 25
Location: Kinglake, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends where you are. We've officially been on a 230v Au Standard since 2000, so 24 years now, but because 240v is within the allowed +10% there is little incentive for the distributor to change anything so in most areas the distributed line voltage is still 240v. There is also no repercussions if they don't adhere to the +10%/-6% standards.

In suburbs where there is a lot of home solar for example, you will regularly see voltages exceed 253v on sunny days because of the solar feed in. Feed in works by increasing the voltage in the inverter higher than the line in voltage so it flows the other way. You get enough houses doing this in a local area and the line voltage goes up above the 253v limit. This happened quite a bit where I lived 4 years ago. The most frustrating part about that is that feed in then stops working so anyone with solar doesn't get their feed in tariff but thats a whole other issue.

Quote:
Electrical service companies tend to very closely regulate the power, especially on the high side.


I can't help but laugh a bit at this as it's a bit of joke in many parts of Australia. That said, i've checked my meter this morning and it was bang on 240v. Ive only moved here a couple of years ago and had no reason to check this previously.
I've just spoken to my electrician and asked him what ranges of voltage he's seeing during his day to day work and he said it's normally 230v-240v range and doesn't really see it go higher than that.
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T-Bone




Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 25
Location: Kinglake, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..also my pumps are only 25w (.1amps) so don't have a big impact.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok! If you're not using our recommended pumps (at about 1.4A/each) but ones that are only 0.1A/each then so I wouldn't have any concerns with the voltage hitting even 253V.

Interesting to hear about the power swings - in North America it's typically much more closely regulated. It may be because Kinglake AUS seems a bit more rural maybe? Not sure. Looks like absolutely beautiful countryside however. Wow! Reminds me of some of the northern parts of Canada where I grew up...





Kal

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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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T-Bone




Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 25
Location: Kinglake, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinglake was kinda weird because it's only 90km from Melbourne but very much felt like and had the infrastructure of a town much more remote. The power was all over the shop.

I live in Mallacoota now which is A LOT more remote and only has a population of 1000 people but largely seems more established than Kinglake was - and based on this mornings conversation with my sparky, the power is more stable... we'll see.

Thanks for the advice, i'll go ahead with the upgrade and closely monitor the current draw.

As pretty as Kinglake was Mallacoota is exponentially more beautiful - it's in the middle of a National Park on the edge of a large lake/estuary system and an untouched coast line. It's nuts.

I'd love to explore Canada and Alaska at some point. Some amazing looking country in those parts of the world.

Heres a couple of pics of Mallacoota.



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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Amazing pics. Thanks for sharing!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
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