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American Barleywine
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

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PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: American Barleywine Reply with quote


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Recipe is here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/american-barleywine

Questions? Ask below. Cheers!

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:15 pm; edited 44 times in total
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g8tors



Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I brewed this beer two weeks ago. OG ended up being 1.100 and gravity is now 1.030. I started fermentation at 65 and slowly raised it up to 70 during the first week and maintained it at 70 for the second week. I transferred the beer from the bucket to a keg for secondary fermentation and still holding it at a temp of 70. Will I see much more fermentation in the secondary and if not should I add some more US-05 yeast or some champagne yeast or not worry about it?

Thanks,

Scott
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10295
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do all my fermentation in the primary. With today's good yeasts there's no reason for a secondary fermentation. You end up taking the wort off most of the yeast which does more harm than good. Too late now but I would have left it until it finished. Wait another week and see what happens.

Kal

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MtnBrewer



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 29
Location: Colorado Springs


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I do all my fermentation in the primary. With today's good yeasts there's no reason for a secondary fermentation. You end up taking the wort off most of the yeast which does more harm than good. Too late now but I would have left it until it finished. Wait another week and see what happens.

Totally agree with this. You should never take it off the yeast until 1) fermentation is finished and 2) the yeast have had a chance to clean up fermentation by-products like diacetyl. After that if you want to secondary for dry hopping, clarification, etc. that's fine but don't interrupt your beer in the middle of fermentation.
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g8tors



Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I should have said "secondary fermentation". The primary lasted at least 14 days and I think it was actually 16 days. There hadn't been any activity with the air lock for 4 days so I think the fermentation was pretty much done. The way I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the yeast falls to the bottom after they die or go dormant so racking off the yeast cake shouldn't affect the fermentation any. I racked to the secondary (keg) to dry hop and let any active yeast in suspension finish cleaning up and not get any of the off flavors from sitting on the yeast cake. That was my thinking anyway.

I guess I should have waited a couple more days and took another gravity reading to be sure fermentation was done. Assuming the two gravity readings were the same, would you have added more yeast or left it at 1.030?
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MtnBrewer



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 29
Location: Colorado Springs


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, in that case it sounds like you did everything correctly. I would not have added more yeast unless there was some evidence suggesting that the primary yeast crapped out (technical term). In your case, it doesn't sound like that happened so I'd just live with the 1.030 FG. Also, there will still be some yeast in suspension and they might slowly chew through some of the remaining sugar.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10295
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never use the air lock to gauge activity. At the end of fermentation things slow down and you'll barely see any movement and if you're using pails sometimes the c02 will leak out through cracks in the seal between the bucket and the lid. Always use a hydrometer.

You'll still get fermentation when the yeast drops down.

With today's high quality yeasts you will not get any off flavours from sitting on the yeast cake. The opposite is true. You'll get it from not letting it sit on the yeast cake long enough.

Looking at my notes for this batch:

May 27, 2010: 1.112 @ 68F
June 11, 2010: 1.028 @ 72F. Added dry hops to primary.
June 21, 2010: 1.022 @ 72F. Racked to brite tanks. Added gelatine. Kegged a few days later.

It's late now but here's what I would have done: When you measured after the ~16 days you'd have seen that the gravity is really high. This would prompt you to leave it for another 7-10 days and re-measure. The last thing you want to do if it's too high is to rack. Some highly flocculant yeasts like WY1968 will sometimes appear be helped by racking as it stirs it up but you're better just to gently stir the primary (I do this with WY1968 sometimes - with US05/WLP001/WY1056 you don't need to). If after another 7-10 days it's still 1.030 then something is wrong. If it's dropping, leave it longer still. In either case you have to question what went wrong as it probably shouldn't take this long or stalled. You have to start looking at things like:

- was the mash temp right?
- was it aerated properly?
- was enough heathly yeast pitched?
- was the temperature during fermentation right?
- was the temperature during fermentation stable? (Didn't go up/down daily). Often the temp needs to be raised as fermentation slows down as the wort/beer is no longer producing as much heat, and raising the temp slightly near the end (last 20% of gravity points) can help get to the numbers you want.
- etc.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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g8tors



Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, that's what I wanted to know. I will take another gravity reading this weekend and report back.

Scott
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g8tors



Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still reading 1.030. Style guideline ranges from 1.016 - 1.030 so I'm thinking I will just leave it alone and not add anymore yeast. Hoping to serve this on New year.

Scott
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g8tors



Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I would give an update on this beer I made earlier this year. Two weekends ago I tried it for the first time and it tasted great. Maybe a little on the sweet side but not much. One glass made me feel a little warmer and a little tipsy. There was no head on the pour and very little carbonation so I turned up the CO2 and tried it again this past weekend. Now there is plenty of head that lasts the entire time it takes to drink the beer but it doesn't taste as good as it did the first time. So my plan is to take the beer out of the fridge and let it warm up to get some of the gas out and find the right balance. I will be shooting for Kal's recommended 1.6 - 1.8 which was what I was aiming for originally but thought I would have more foam then what I had.

Scott
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10295
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update! For what it's worth, high gravity beers rarely have any foam - it just doesn't work.

I still have some left over that's 3 years old now and I'd say the mellowing has slowed down and likely isn't going to change much more over time.

Kal

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jerryt



Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Saline, Michigan


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal. This will be made for my Batch #13 this next week. I have bought a couple of 3 gal Cornys (very cool) so I am planning on making up a 6 gallon batch of this to squirrel away for a year+. My problem is that my Keezer is full (6) and so is my conditioning freezer (4). At what temp can I store this "safely" long term? My brewery is a heavily insulated room that can stay between 55-58 F even in the summer if it is closed up. Will that be cool enough to condition? I also have a crawl space that stays pretty constant but I have not measured the temp in the summer.

How about with "normal" beers that are waiting for a rotation spot in the freezer/keezer? Is it okay to keg and leave in the 55-60F range for a week or so? Should I cold crash and gelatin first or wait until I move into the conditioning freezer?

Thanks for your input.

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10295
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barley wine stored at 55-58F is fine. It's temperature swings we don't want. Keep it somewhat cool and consistent and you'll be fine.

Certainly fine to leave other "normal" beers at 55-60F for an extended duration before they go on tap. Again, it's temp swings that beers don't seem to like (IMHO), and overly high temps (above room temp). Keep it cool (the lower the better) and keep it consistent. 55-60F is good. Much better than storing long term at 70F+. A week's storage is no time at all too. I wouldn't worry about it.

Good luck!

Kal

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chris



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 1
Location: NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: barleywine in a brandy barrel Reply with quote

I would like to try making this recipe and I recentley acquired a grape brandy barrel and wouls like to age this beer in it.Wondering what peoples thoughts are on this?
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jonymac



Joined: 18 Dec 2014
Posts: 138



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal - struggling with this one - I am on week 3 for the primary fermentation - it is still bubbling away... Last week it was at 5.75%, today it is at 9.5%. Did yours ferment out this slowly? I added two more packets of US05 last week to keep it moving. I tasted it today - tastes like ass, but I suppose that is the way an unaged barleywine tastes???
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10295
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't look at bubbles: Take gravity readings, but not too many (no point). Take one now, then maybe 3-4 days from now. What's the gravity now?

Move it to somewhere a bit warmer like 72F if you're having issues having it finish out. It may have been under-oxygenated. A common problem with really high gravity beers. Using pure O2 on such high ABV beers can help, as can adding another shot ~12 hours after pitching. Adding more yeast later rarely helps. I would simply wait and see. (Though that said, some will say this this dry yeast doesn't need to be oxygenated - certainly no harm hone however if you do).

Kal

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jonymac



Joined: 18 Dec 2014
Posts: 138



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal - I mentioned the bubbles as an indication of active fermentation. I posted my readings in ABV - I always take samples to see where things are - right now I am at 1.046 with a target of 1.022. You probably know my system controls the temp as well - started at 66 and have brought it up to 71 so far. I oxygenate with pure O2 prior to pitching for 2 minutes and then again 3 days later for 2 minutes. I have been shaking the fermenter every few days. I also regularly make 9-11% double and triple IPAs. I just have never seen a 3 week fermentation, nor have I ever done a barleywine per se, and so I was asking if this was a similar experience for you.

How has your barleywine tasted prior to aging?

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10295
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonymac wrote:
Kal - I mentioned the bubbles as an indication of active fermentation.

Sorry - you've been brewing for while so I appreciate that. I only mention this because as wort warms up, C02 comes out of solution which can cause bubbling, so in certain cases bubbling doesn't mean it's fermenting. I'm used to answering questions for those new to brewing who don't realize that so my usual answer is "don't look at bubbles, trust the hydrometer". Wink

Quote:
I posted my readings in ABV - I always take samples to see where things are - right now I am at 1.046 with a target of 1.022.

1.046 is definitely high. it's going to taste very sweet.

Quote:
You probably know my system controls the temp as well - started at 66 and have brought it up to 71 so far. I oxygenate with pure O2 prior to pitching for 2 minutes and then again 3 days later for 2 minutes.

Sounds like you did everything right.

Quote:
I have been shaking the fermenter every few days.

No harm done but I haven't ever found a need to do that with US-05.

Quote:
I just have never seen a 3 week fermentation, nor have I ever done a barleywine per se, and so I was asking if this was a similar experience for you.

Looking at my notes:

After 4 days: Down to 1.038 / 67-68F
After 1 week increased temp to 70F
After ~2 weeks: Down to 1.028. Added dry hops to primary here. I find adding dry hops to primary near the end of fermentation always helps with attenuation too as it moves around the yeast some more.
After 3.5 weeks: Down to 1.022 (at 72F at this point - I had let it rise up a bit more). This is when I kegged.

Quote:
How has your barleywine tasted prior to aging?

Very bitter as expected. I knew it was going to age for 1+ years so the hops would really mellow/fade, so I hopped it like crazy. It was IIPA bitter at the time of kegging. Like a really malty IIPA. A year later it was much smoother, much less bitter, more about the malt.

Attenuation on this one is important. If it's too high, it'll be kind of sickly. You want it to attenuate enough. 1.022 is (IMHO) a good target for this beer.

Kal

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Tennessee



Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 112
Location: Tennessee


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is the total table sugar bill 5#'s ?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10295
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2.5 lbs of table sugar. Not sure how the extra line got in there... cut and paste error when I recently edited I think. Sorry!

Kal

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