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Handling Whirlpool hop additions with theelectricbrewery?

 
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idingle



Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 25
Location: Alberta


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Handling Whirlpool hop additions with theelectricbrewery? Reply with quote


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Hey Kal-

We've done four brew days here now since the end of late february much to the delight of the neighbours and friends who come by.

I contacted Parallel 49 and got a recipe for their Jerkface 9000 and am trying to figure out how to handle a 50g hop addition during whirlpool.

Any advice given the setup I have (20g Blichmanns following your model)?

Thanks
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 7834
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many commercial brewers will transfer their boil kettle wort to a whirlpool tank (with a tangential inlet) so that the trub settles at the center and the wort can be removed. Some will add some hops to this hot wort at this time to steep for added flavour and aroma. This is what they usually mean by whirlpool hops at the commercial level.

Now, with the huge volumes they deal with the wort can continue to boil for some time. Because of this there's no 'correct' way to translate one person's system process/recipe to another system, especially when the volumes are very different. It's very common to have flameout hops in a 50+ bbl commercial brewery keep boiling for a while after so on a small scale setup those 0 min hops may be more like 20 min hops on a small scale setup like we use at home. Because of this the recipe needs to be changed.

I'd probably just treat whirlpool hops like boil kettle steeping hops. Power's off and I dump in however much hops I want and start chilling through my CFC. The hops steep for ~20 mins or whatever time it takes to chill. You can steep for a while first before chilling if you'd like longer contact. You can also wait until the temp drops a bit and then hold (called a hop stand).

Up to you really. Again, there's no 'correct' way to translate one person's system process/recipe to another system, especially when the volumes are very different. You don't know at what temp they whirlpool, how the temp drops (if much at all) nor do you know how long.

Good luck!

Kal

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McGruber



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 184
Location: Idaho


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may be unsolicited advice, but if you have the space, you could just add a whirlpool and do it like the big guys. I bought a cheap aluminum stock pot from Amazon, punched holes in it similar to what Kal has already described and added two valves and connectors. You can use the existing pumps to pump to the WP and circulate it. Here's the link to my build thread, and some WP discussion.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28523

Some technical points I found to consider in WP design:

- WP height/ diameter ratio should be 0.7 - 1.0
- Ideally you'd have an inlet 1/3 the height of the liquid from the bottom to minimize WP aeration
- The inlet entry should be flush with inside WP wall and tangental
- You should have an outlet 1/2 the level of wort, and as you draw down to that level you would then draw off the bottom.

As Kal mentioned the wort going into the WP is still boiling and will cause isomerization. Knowing that bitterness is caused by hops contact with temperature and time , and you'll just have to play with when you want to add your hops and how long you want to circulate it and let it rest.

This is probably obvious, but don't use whole hops in the WP (That's a little pearl I offer from experience). Shocked



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stickyfinger



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 171
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could add a whirlpool port, as I did, and I love it, but I think just stirring the hops around periodically should be fine. I usually use 165F for the whirlpool, but I think we are still in the early days of figuring out the optimal parameters for the whirlpool.
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Jerz



Joined: 17 Nov 2013
Posts: 191
Location: Suwanee, Georgia

Drinking: Centennial IPA, Oktoberfest, Dry Stout...

Working on: Kolsch, Rye IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful setup... where did you source the hood? I'm still in search of one. Looking at your setup gave me the idea of installing one of those cooktop potfiller faucets (not sure why since you don't have one). Nice look you have there.



McGruber wrote:
This may be unsolicited advice, but if you have the space, you could just add a whirlpool and do it like the big guys. I bought a cheap aluminum stock pot from Amazon, punched holes in it similar to what Kal has already described and added two valves and connectors. You can use the existing pumps to pump to the WP and circulate it. Here's the link to my build thread, and some WP discussion.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28523

Some technical points I found to consider in WP design:

- WP height/ diameter ratio should be 0.7 - 1.0
- Ideally you'd have an inlet 1/3 the height of the liquid from the bottom to minimize WP aeration
- The inlet entry should be flush with inside WP wall and tangental
- You should have an outlet 1/2 the level of wort, and as you draw down to that level you would then draw off the bottom.

As Kal mentioned the wort going into the WP is still boiling and will cause isomerization. Knowing that bitterness is caused by hops contact with temperature and time , and you'll just have to play with when you want to add your hops and how long you want to circulate it and let it rest.

This is probably obvious, but don't use whole hops in the WP (That's a little pearl I offer from experience). Shocked

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McGruber



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 184
Location: Idaho


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerz wrote:
Beautiful setup... where did you source the hood? I'm still in search of one. Looking at your setup gave me the idea of installing one of those cooktop potfiller faucets (not sure why since you don't have one). Nice look you have there.


Thanks. I got quotes from a local sheet metal fabrication shop. They came in way under my other bids from HVAC companies that do similar work. Just call or email around your town to see if anyone that does custom steel work wants to tackle it. If you want it shipped or to pick it up from Idaho I can get you their number.

I thought about doing the backspash pot filler too, or using the countermount dispenser that came with my RO system, but decided it would be too much work to run piping over or under the room door to where I would need it. Maybe I'll look into incorporating it in the next build if I ever move.

Also, a word of caution in whirlpooling in the boil kettle: I don't know what you've got going on in the boil kettle filter department but if you have the same set up I do, you won't be able to do a whirlpool in your kettle with a Hop Blocker or Hop Stopper in place. You'll completely jam up your screen if you're trying to get a good whirlpool rotation. I run my pump at full speed, and even run them in series to get the fastest rotation. You'll have a very frustrating day if you try doing that through a screen. stickyfinger is correct that you could just swirl your boiled wort in the kettle and get some of the effect, but that is specifically suggested against if using the Hop Stopper. (Search for threads on this forum for problems and solutions)

I've included a picture of the inside of the WP that wouldn't attach last time. My Hop Stopper gummed up when I was transferring after "flame" out, so I removed it and transferred all trub and hot break into the WP. WP'd for 20 min and let it stand for 20 min, and ended up with a decent cone in the middle. I'm going to keep experimenting with boil screens, but may not even need one with my WP in place.



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HopMadness



Joined: 14 May 2016
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Handling Whirlpool hop additions with theelectricbrewery Reply with quote

idingle wrote:
Hey Kal-

We've done four brew days here now since the end of late february much to the delight of the neighbours and friends who come by.

I contacted Parallel 49 and got a recipe for their Jerkface 9000 and am trying to figure out how to handle a 50g hop addition during whirlpool.

Any advice given the setup I have (20g Blichmanns following your model)?

Thanks



I Love Jerkface 9000 , I have been wanting to try and clone this for quite a while the next time I get a brew day. Would you be able to share the recipe idingle? Thanks!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 7834
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never had that beer, but you gotta love the "Jerkface 9000" name. Wink
I wonder if the name has anything to do with HAL 9000 from the Arthur C Clarke book/movie "2001"?

Kal

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blazinlow86



Joined: 15 Jan 2017
Posts: 92
Location: vancouver bc


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the jerkface and would love the recipe
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blazinlow86



Joined: 15 Jan 2017
Posts: 92
Location: vancouver bc


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for anyone thats interested i could never find a clone for this so i tried contacting the brewery directly. the head brewer promptly replied with this

5 gallon batch

72% Pilsner Malt
23% Wheat Malt
5% Munich Malt

10g Ahtanum 30min
20g Ahtanum 10min
50g Mosaic 0min
20g Ahtanum dryhop
50g Mosaic dryhop

White Labs 090 - San Diego Super Yeast


its a really nice wheat beer

the clones fermenting away now
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blazinlow86



Joined: 15 Jan 2017
Posts: 92
Location: vancouver bc


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for anyone that is interested i kegged this beer today using a closed transfer from my primary into a purged keg. it tastes FANTASTIC and just like the original. nice hoppy mosaic taste with only a small amount of bitter. i strongly recommend this one to everyone especially wheat beer fans. its really nice and possibly my best brew to date
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