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The Electric Pale Ale
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 7839
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Wow. Your water's very soft. It's basically like distilled or RO water. Great for making beer since you can make any water you want out of it. Good stuff!

Your Step 5 numbers look good. Don't worry about the final sodium numbers too much. I'm not sure I'd add any baking soda, but it's only 1.5/2.2 grams so it's not a lot.

You probably don't need to add as much lactic acid as you think. The target room temp pH is the 5.4-5.6 that they talk about. You're a bit lower. I find the EZ water doesn't always give good estimates for lactic additions so what I do is mash in with my grain and salts, stir it up well, wait about 5 mins, and then take a pH reading. It's usually pretty good and bang on with any beer I make. The exception are beers that are 100% really light malt like a 100% pils or 2-row lager. Then usually every ml of 88% lactic I add to my 10 gallon batch takes the pH down by about 0.1. This is where the pH meter comes in handy. If I'm at (say) 5.4 pH, I'll add 1 ml at a time and re-measure until I get the right pH.

For this beer here which has some Vienna and Crystal 40L, I never have to add any lactic acid to the mash.

Don't forget to use a touch of lactic acid in the sparge water however to take the pH down to 5.6-5.8 or so. In my case I'm usually adding about 2 ml into about 10-15 gallons of water to do that.

(Note that all source water is different so my numbers are not really transferrable).

Kal

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mvakoc



Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Evergreen, CO


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, what is your starting ph? I'm at 7.9, and fear I am hitting the upper limit of using lactic acid to bring the ph down enough.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My starting pH is even higher. It's sometimes as high as 9. Starting pH is irrelevant. It's the buffering capacity (alkalinity) of the water that is important. If your water is really soft like the previous poster (datlan) then the pH will drop like a rock as soon as you start to add things as it has no ability to buffer or resist the change.

Again, ignore the STARTING pH of the water. It's (somewhat) irrelevant if you are going to adjust it, and adding grain just by itself does adjust it.

So you need a pH meter to check after you make adjustments. This is the one I recommend: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/parts-list-using?page=5

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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datlan



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 50
Location: Portland, OR


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot for the info. I'll:
1) Add the mash salts for minerals, wait, then measure and see if I need to bring the pH down any more (goal is 5.2-5.3).
2) Add some lactic acid to the sparge water to bring down the pH to 5.6-5.8.
3) Add salts to the boil (not for pH, but for minerals)

Thanks!
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly right. EZ Water Calculator will give you the mash and boil salts to add. Those I calculate ahead of time and then just add blindly.

Kal

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perogi



Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 727
Location: NH

Drinking: Perogi's Pale Ale, Edwort's Apfelwein, Black Pumpkin (Shipyard Pumpkin and Guinness Layered)

Working on: Rebuilding my brewery during a major renovation


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Thanks! I may consider it! Got a week or so to go before I dry-hop.

Kal


Kal - did you dry hop this yet and if so, which hop type did you use?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 7839
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

perogi wrote:
kal wrote:
Thanks! I may consider it! Got a week or so to go before I dry-hop.

Kal


Kal - did you dry hop this yet and if so, which hop type did you use?

My last batch I ended up dry hopping half with Ahtanum and the other half with NZ Galaxy. We'll see!

Kal

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Fatbaldingoldgit



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 142
Location: Horsham, West Sussex


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just kegged 10 gals of the Electric IPA but am having problems clearing it...

I'm using a conical fermenter...I dry hopped near the end of fermentation...waited 10 days then removed the hops...pitched in the required amount of Isinglass stirred gently..and waited a couple of days and then kegged into a fridge at normal temperature..I'm not too bothered that the beer isn't clear when I drink it coz even now it promises to taste fantastic...the aroma is magical...I'd just like to understand what could be causing the haze..what bit of the process is critical to achieving bright beer?

I have used the same batch of Isinglass I used before successfully..and I keep it in a fridge...I didn't crash cool the wort when it was being fined..wondered if that might be the cause.

Any thoughts on how the second batch can achieve brightness?

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 7839
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note: You mentioned the Electric IPA but posted in the Electric Pale Ale (APA) thread. Doesn't matter... they're both the same as far as haze/clearing is concerned.

I've never used Isinglass myself but I suppose it should work. Most beer will clear given enough time.

Was the beer clear when you kegged it? If it got hazy after kegging and chilling then it's chill haze. Minimize chill haze by having a good cold break - that means chilling the wort from boiling to pitch temp as fast as possible. The CFC I recommend is excellent at going this.

Without watching you brew from start to end there are hundreds of things that may cause beer to be hazy. So hard to pinpoint.

It also be normal and will go away. After fermentation is done at around 68F for this beer I add gelatine and wait a few days. It typically drops crystal clear such that I can see right through the glass carboy. I then keg (still at 68F) and then chill to just above freezing and carb. It usually takes a couple of weeks. During tihs time if I pull samples it's usually a bit hazy. That goes away after a couple of weeks.

Kal

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Fatbaldingoldgit



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 142
Location: Horsham, West Sussex


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes..sorry about that Kal..I discovered that immediately after posting..what an idiot!...although as you point out the haze thing is common to many beers...

I'm not too worried..Ill just leave it a little while, if I can bear not to keep sampling it, and see if it clears..I have two kegs so if the first doesn't clear then the second might as I'm not chilling the second one yet.

...and yes..I am using the CFC you recommend...although I chill directly into the fermenter and that has to be done at a slow trickle in order to get the temperature down..am wondering if initially chilling it at full pump flow back into the boiler might be better ....it feels like it should chill more wort quicker ...and then once the overall temperature has dropped then redirect the output into the fermenter and dial down the pump so it gets to fermenting temp.

Whadjer think?

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 7839
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fatbaldingoldgit wrote:
...and yes..I am using the CFC you recommend...although I chill directly into the fermenter and that has to be done at a slow trickle in order to get the temperature down..am wondering if initially chilling it at full pump flow back into the boiler might be better ....it feels like it should chill more wort quicker ...and then once the overall temperature has dropped then redirect the output into the fermenter and dial down the pump so it gets to fermenting temp.

IMHO I think it's better to chill a little bit at a time drastically than the chill the whole thing slowly. Keep doing what you're doing.

Kal

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mvakoc



Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Evergreen, CO


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I intended to make this but had to make some substitutions based on ingredients I had on hand. The recipe has therefore been known as the Non-Electric Pale Ale, as in it wasn't quite the original. It was so good I made it a second time. I recently won 1st place in category and best of show in a contest with this, so thought I would share my variation.

Basically it is substituting Cascade for Centennial, adding munich,increasing the crystal 40, and adding a carapils/dextrine malt.

Non Electric Pale Ale

Style: American Pale Ale
Type: Calories: 176
Rating: 0.0 Boil Size: 13.80 Gal
IBU's: 33.19 Batch Size: 12.20 Gal
Color: 5.7 SRM Boil Time: 60 minutes
Preboil OG: 1.048
Estimated Actual
Brew Date: - 07/22/2012
OG: 1.054 1.054
FG: 1.013 1.011
ABV: 5.37 % 5.63 %
Efficiency: 95 % 96 %
Serve Date: 07/22/2012 / /

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp Estimated Actual
(none)

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
14.50 lbs 72.50 % Rahr 2-Row 90 mins 1.035
2.00 lbs 10.00 % Briess Vienna Malt 90 mins 1.036
1.50 lbs 7.50 % Munich Malt 90 mins 1.037
1.00 lbs 5.00 % Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L 90 mins 1.034
1.00 lbs 5.00 % Cara-Pils/Dextrine 60 mins 1.033

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.35 ozs 8.00 Cascade 20 mins 6.80
0.88 ozs 7.13 Amarillo 20 mins 9.30
2.70 ozs 9.57 Cascade 10 mins 6.80
1.75 ozs 8.49 Amarillo 10 mins 9.30
2.70 ozs 0.00 Cascade 0 mins 5.50
1.30 ozs 0.00 Amarillo 0 mins 8.50
2.00 ozs Citra 7 days 13.20

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
4.00 pkg American Ale Wyeast Labs 1056

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
1.00 each Whirlfloc Tablet 15 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Light Body Infusion In 90 min @ 152.0°F
Heat to 152.0°F over 2 mins
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perogi



Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 727
Location: NH

Drinking: Perogi's Pale Ale, Edwort's Apfelwein, Black Pumpkin (Shipyard Pumpkin and Guinness Layered)

Working on: Rebuilding my brewery during a major renovation


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mvakoc - funny! I made the same changes to the grain bill but kept the hops the same.

If you have tried both - what is the main difference hopwise/aroma/taste from one to the other? I've always been told that Centennial is "Super Cascade".
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mvakoc



Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Evergreen, CO


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perogi wrote:
@mvakoc - funny! I made the same changes to the grain bill but kept the hops the same.

If you have tried both - what is the main difference hopwise/aroma/taste from one to the other? I've always been told that Centennial is "Super Cascade".


I haven't made both, only my version. I would expect it to be more "floral" from the cascade hops while a little bit maltier from the grain bill changes.
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John Smith



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Great recipe Reply with quote

I'm brewing this a second time changing the yeast to Pacman and substituting Legacy hops for the Centennial. You know how it is with leaving recipes alone... However, my first batch was a winner! Everyone who tries it keeps going back for more. ABV came in at 5.2%, very clean, sweet dry finish. Very refreshing beer.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 7839
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds interesting - let us know how it turns out John!

Kal

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John Smith



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

I transfered to secondary today. I tried the last batch, obviously aged, dry hopped and carbonated to compare with this one. Seems the Pacman yeast gave it a bit more sweet malt kick with the same amount of bittering as the first. I actually like it better, seems to have a better balance of bitter to sweet. I ferment in a 10 gal carboy and transfer to 5 gal corny kegs with CO2. I hung 1 oz of Citra with dental floss and a weight. I'll eventually transfer into another corny, crash chill, carb and enjoy!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 7839
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: American Lager, , Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kölsch, Electric Hop Candy Jr


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds great!

I've never used Rogue's Pacman yeast but it's on my todo list as I've heard interesting things. How low did it attenuate? It's known to finish fairly dry I think. What temp did you ferment at? From what I've read Rogue ferments fairly low (around 60F).

Kal

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John Smith



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will be my second time using pacman. I made a HUB IPA clone with it, came out wonderful highlighting all the fun hoppy nuances balanced with the malt back. It did NOT taste like HUB, but my wife liked it better, seems that counts for something.

Using Dave's dreaded ASG, SG at 1.151 original. After 5 days in primary, SG 1.0126. The yeast was still active, Fermentor reading 66 degrees, maybe 4 to 6 bubbles per minute. I'll take another reading when I transfer to serving keg in 5 days. My original batch of electric was 1.052 and 1.012 using 2 packs US-05. I used only one pack Pacman Wyeast, no starter. And, my total grain bill was 9.88 lbs for a 5.5 gal batch, starting volume 7 gallons.

And yes, you should try Pacman, it likes to consume sugar and excrete great tasting beer well balanced beer, at least to my taste buds liking.
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John Smith



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: Electric Pale Ale Two Reply with quote

I attached a PDF from Beersmith of the recipe and tasting notes.

I really like how this beer turned out. It has a very nice balance of hops to malt with a nice, almost earl gray tea finish, something I've been trying to accomplish. I can leave this beer lingering on the tongue for a long time with the result of wanting more. All the flavors compliment each other, no off tastes or anything that warrant changing the recipe.



Electric Pale Ale Two.pdf
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