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blatz
Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 71
Location: Florida
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 Link Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
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sorry - left that step out - once I have the main wort knocked down to <100df, I switch from groundwater to a recirculating sump pump in an bucket filled with ice water for the water side to bring it down to whatever I need. I generally get to mid 40s for lagers with this method, and save a lot of water to boot.
sounds like I'll just need to experiment a little once I get all set up - which is a long ways off - just ordered my condensate hood earlier today...
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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rmessick
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Turners Falls, MA
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| Link Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding the refractometer with brix and SG scales that wasn't available at Midwest Supplies (mentioned a page earlier):
| Sparky wrote: | Too bad it is out of stock.  |
It's back in stock now! 
-Dick
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TomRep
Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 52
Location: Reading, PA
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| Link Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Kal! Sorry if this was posted somewhere else. If it was, just redirect me, I couldn't find it. I'm interested in your cleaning methods for the system I know the HLT doesn't have to be cleaned and you scoop the grains out of the mash tun, but then what? I think I saw somewhere you use a ShopVac (which I'm intending on doing as well), but how do you rinse the mash tun and boil kettle? I'm sure you use the pumps somehow, but I'm also sure you have it down to a pretty good science by now and can help us who are new to the system.
Tom
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milldoggy
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA
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| Link Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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I scoop my mash tun using a stainless strainer spoon thing. The I rinse it with a hose and drain it out then a little scrub with a sponge and she is done. I use a cooler, but I would think the pot would be the same?
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Holter
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 221
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Kal-
I am very new to water adjustments, meaning the most that I have done is put a water filter inline to remove the chloramine in my city's water. It's something that I have known I should be looking into for some time, but it was less important than other parts of the process at the time. From your write up it looks to me like you only adjust your water once, meaning you add your salts/etc for the entire 20 gallon volume. From the water calculators that I have been messing around with, they seem to want different adjustments for the mash liquor and the sparge liquor.
In the brew day step by step you reference a future article where you would get more in depth about the reasons for adjusting water and your process for doing this. Have you created this yet? The reason I am asking is because I am just about to start brewing on the new system and I want to eventually start adjusting my water profile for different recipes. My concern is that the sparge water would differ enough from sparge to mash that it would adjust the process. It would almost be like I will need to fill the HLT up with water and make adjustments to it that are for the sparge. I would then fill up my MLT with my 1.25 qts/lb and make the adjustments to it for the mash. Then as I heat up the HKT I recirc the mash water until both hit temp, that would effectively keep the two water setups different. Unless the difference just comes down to adding lactic acid to one and not the other, etc.
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Holter
LABeerFan.com
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Holter wrote: | | I am very new to water adjustments, meaning the most that I have done is put a water filter inline to remove the chloramine in my city's water. It's something that I have known I should be looking into for some time, but it was less important than other parts of the process at the time. From your write up it looks to me like you only adjust your water once, meaning you add your salts/etc for the entire 20 gallon volume. From the water calculators that I have been messing around with, they seem to want different adjustments for the mash liquor and the sparge liquor. |
No, I add some salts directly to the mash when I first dough-in (add grain), and then other salts directly to the boil kettle while sparging. I use EZWaterCalculator.com. Probably the same one as you as it tells you how much to add to each.
You can't add most salts to the sparge water since some do not dissolve correctly.
| Quote: | | In the brew day step by step you reference a future article where you would get more in depth about the reasons for adjusting water and your process for doing this. Have you created this yet? |
Nope. 
Here's the readers digest version:
1. Use the spreadsheet at EZWaterCalculator.com
2. You enter your grain info and city water info. If your city water is hard you'll need to cut it with RO water or use 100% RO water.
3. You enter your amount of strike and sparge water based on my brew day step by step guide.
4. You figure out what you want your target water to be.
- For hoppy beers I go with about: Ca=110,Mg=18,Na=16,Cl=50,S04=280 (Randy Mosher's Pale Ale numbers with S04)
- For lighter lagers I go with about: Ca=50,Mg=10,Na=16,Cl=70,S04=70 (minimums on Ca & Mg, Cl:S04 ratio low and balanced)
5. Add mash additions to mash at start of mashing. Add sparge water additions to boil kettle (not HLT) at start of boiling.
6. Make a donation to EZWaterCalculator.com because it's so darned easy to use.
| Quote: | | The reason I am asking is because I am just about to start brewing on the new system and I want to eventually start adjusting my water profile for different recipes. My concern is that the sparge water would differ enough from sparge to mash that it would adjust the process. It would almost be like I will need to fill the HLT up with water and make adjustments to it that are for the sparge. I would then fill up my MLT with my 1.25 qts/lb and make the adjustments to it for the mash. Then as I heat up the HKT I recirc the mash water until both hit temp, that would effectively keep the two water setups different. Unless the difference just comes down to adding lactic acid to one and not the other, etc. |
This is the only (IMHO) confusing part about EZWaterCalculator. I spoke with the author and he's going to change the text "sparge water additions" to "boil kettle" or similar. Earlier versions said this, but he removed it in the most recent versions.
If you follow the official EZWaterCalc thread over at HomeBrewTalk.com you'll see that it's a common question.
Kal
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pola0502ds
Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any good recommended reading to help us understand water chemistry. Unless you know alot about chemistry I find it hard to understand readings about water chemistry.
Right now I just filter my water and use that for all my beers. I have been only brewing for 7 months but i've brewed 160 gallons so far. I produce some pretty darn good beer so i haven't seen the effects yet of not modifing the water.
However, I want to learn about it because I know I won't be able to hit the nail on the head with certain beer styles.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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coffeediver
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 174
Location: Kiowa CO.
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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The one I use is http://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/ , it is a excel spread sheet using several pages for different info, mash, sparge and water adjustment. There is a page for "water knowledge" that I found useful.
Barry
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Holter
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 221
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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| Link Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| pola0502ds wrote: | Is there any good recommended reading to help us understand water chemistry. Unless you know alot about chemistry I find it hard to understand readings about water chemistry.
Right now I just filter my water and use that for all my beers. I have been only brewing for 7 months but i've brewed 160 gallons so far. I produce some pretty darn good beer so i haven't seen the effects yet of not modifing the water.
However, I want to learn about it because I know I won't be able to hit the nail on the head with certain beer styles. |
As I said I have only just started to look into this, but from my experience most of the literature out there is very confusing. I think understanding water chemistry is one of those things you just need to submerse yourself in before you can claim any real understanding.
That being said, John Palmer and AJ Delange seem to have the most information out there, and AJ posts on a lot of the regular beer forums. I posted a copy of my city's water report and he responded within a day or so. His response wasnt the best information though as he reiterated to me that i need to make some serious adjustments to my water (dilution) before I can comfortably brew lighter styles than I am used to. I really dont want to have to buy distilled water each time I brew, so before i start to add salts/chalk to my water I am going to submit a couple of samples to Ward labs to get an actual report of the water 4 times a year this year so that I can get an idea for future uses.
I listened to the "Waterganza" podcasts on the brewing network this week while driving to and from work, and one of the points that i picked up on was that throughout the year your water supplier will pull the water from different sources as each one dries up. They suggested getting the water tested at least twice a year at the beginning (I am going to get it tested quarterly) to establish a trend so that in the future i can accurately predict the water i am working with. My hope is to find some part of the year where i can use less dilution than other times of the year.
Definitely download the Brew Strong water shows and listen to them all. Palmer has a wealth of information and is very good at explaining everything. Jamil kind of pushes the conversation along when Palmer gets a bit too technical which really helps for the water novice.
Of course, i get home from my commute thinking i have figured out how to make adjustments and I end up getting confused by any of the water calculators out there.
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Holter
LABeerFan.com
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Holter
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 221
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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| Link Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: |
No, I add some salts directly to the mash when I first dough-in (add grain), and then other salts directly to the boil kettle while sparging. I use EZWaterCalculator.com. Probably the same one as you as it tells you how much to add to each.
You can't add most salts to the sparge water since some do not dissolve correctly. |
Ive tried EZ Water Calculator and I cant tell if my results are good or not. Ill have to post that.
| kal wrote: |
- For hoppy beers I go with about: Ca=110,Mg=18,Na=16,Cl=50,S04=280 (Randy Mosher's Pale Ale numbers with S04)
- For lighter lagers I go with about: Ca=50,Mg=10,Na=16,Cl=70,S04=70 (minimums on Ca & Mg, Cl:S04 ratio low and balanced)
5. Add mash additions to mash at start of mashing. Add sparge water additions to boil kettle (not HLT) at start of boiling.
6. Make a donation to EZWaterCalculator.com because it's so darned easy to use. |
Thanks for that. I think thats the way i am going to start out with my beers until i get an idea of the effect the adjustments are having on my finished beers. I definitely was confused about the sparge additions, so thanks for clearing that up. I think i may still add water to the mash tun and start the recirculation while heating up the HLT water as it will give me more volume to start with when i decide to brew 20 gallon batches.
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Holter
LABeerFan.com
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Holter wrote: | | They suggested getting the water tested at least twice a year at the beginning (I am going to get it tested quarterly) to establish a trend so that in the future i can accurately predict the water i am working with. My hope is to find some part of the year where i can use less dilution than other times of the year. |
Most city water reports are exactly that: An average of the water throughout the year.
My report says the water's very low in minerals/salts (soft) in my city so even if some of the content we care about varied by 25-50% throughout the year for me, it wouldn't have a noticeable effect.
For example, according to my city's water report the calcium in my water is 8.9 ppm. Even if that doubled to 20 without my knowing it it wouldn't be noticable because for most beers I adjust it up to around 110. That 110 would actually measure around 121. Not something to get worried about.
I'd be surprised if any city water had widely huge differences seasonally.
Kal
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Last edited by kal on Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joebrewing
Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 41
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| Link Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:00 pm Post subject: sparge hose placement |
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This weekend, a brewer who I was showing my system suggested I put the sparge hose into the valve on the boil kettle. I'm not sure why I never thought of this before, but it lowers splashing and reduces the chance it gets knocked out of the kettle. I thought I'd pass it along.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Joebrewing
Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 41
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| Link Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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On page 7 of the step by step, connect the wort hose from the OUT in the wort pump into the OUT on the boil kettle.
I also find I have an easier time priming the wort pump when I mash if I connect the hose from the OUT in the wort pump to the top valve in the HERMS coil, which you have labeled as OUT in step 5.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Joebrewing wrote: | | On page 7 of the step by step, connect the wort hose from the OUT in the wort pump into the OUT on the boil kettle. |
Ah - ok! Sure. I don't recommend this for the following reasons in the instructions:
" The longer 6 foot hose directing wort into the Boil Kettle is simply placed over the side so that we can see the flow rate and to make it easier to take samples for pH and gravity measurements. (The hose end is heavy, there is no danger of the hose falling out of the kettle)."
If you hook it up directly as you mention you can't see the flow rate or take samples.
If you use the two piece ends on the hoses as I recommend in the instructions the hose ends are heavy and it won't fall out:
Put the hose down low as in the pictures so that it's in the wort and there won't be any splashing:
Kal
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11121
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Joebrewing wrote: | | I also find I have an easier time priming the wort pump when I mash if I connect the hose from the OUT in the wort pump to the top valve in the HERMS coil, which you have labeled as OUT in step 5. |
Weird. That one is odd. Here's the picture:
To me, it should not make any difference which of the two HERMS points you use when connected given that the head (max height) is the same either way (the max height is the MLT IN in both cases).
What pumps are you using? What's the vertical distance from MLT output to the pump input? If you use the pumps I recommend (March with larger 3/4" center inlet) and max the vertical distance (I show ~26.5" in my instructions) you shouldn't have pump priming problems. EDIT: The more water in the MLT the better of course. If making very small batches/very light beers with less water I'm not sure what the results would be (I make 10 gallon batches, anywhere from 3.2 ABV to above 10).
Kal
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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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