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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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pola0502ds wrote:
The silicone tubing you use that just rests on top of the grain bed, I know silicone can withstand temps up to 500 degrees or so but do you know if you can start to get off flavors from the tubing at a certain point that is closer to the temps we work with?

No. It's completely inert pharmaceutical/lab grade stuff. That's the primary reason I use it. It's the number one choice in pharmaceutical, medical, food, and dairy (milking) use where flexibility is needed.

Kal

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pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding your comment in red:

We take pH and gravity readings as we near the end, usually at the 8, 10, 12, and 14 gallon mark when targeting 12 gallons post-boil ... (the example below is near the end of the sparge, hence the low gravity sweet wort).
We want to keep it below a pH of 6 and hopefully above 1.008 SG (assuming 68F) to avoid excess tannin extraction.

Is this true for all beer styles?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
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pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say assuming 68 degrees, is thats just for your sample? What if it's off? Can't you just correct or adjust it
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pola0502ds wrote:
When you say assuming 68 degrees, is thats just for your sample? What if it's off? Can't you just correct or adjust it


SG varies by temp. There any online calculators to convert from whatever temp your sample is at to 68F which is what people usually refer to when they quote SG. Most brewing software has built in calculators too. I use the one built into Beer Tools Pro.

When I wrote "assuming 68F", a better word would be "relative to 68F".

What I'm trying to say is that a specific gravity (SG) is only useful if temperature is also give since SG varies by temperature. If no temp if given we usually assume somewhere around room temp (68F).

I don't adjust the pH during sparging. I adjust the pH of the sparge water to be below 6 so that it's a non-issue.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So yesterday I brewed your APA like I said and I did a Cream ale. Both times I used Five Star Mash PH 5.2 stabilizer. It's suppose to bring it down to 5.2 but for both batches I was at 5.4ish. I just add it to the mash, not to the sparge water. I did multipal tests and the ph was consistant at 5.4. So that's another good way to drop your PH. Notes for "using your brewery". The only thing i didn't like about it is how much you have to use per 5 gallons. It only comes in a little jar and by the time I brewed 2 batches, I might have enough for one more 10 gallon batch. I need to read into and understand brewing water and what the different salts/acids do cause i'm sure it's a lot cheaper to do it that way.

So what you said about the SG, I would take a sample and instead of cooling it down I would take a reading and then take my thermapen and get a temperature reading of the sample. I would plugin the result of the SG and the result of the temp into beersmith and that would give me the corrected reading. I also have to plug in what my hydrometer was calibrated too. In my case, mine is 70. From what I understand most at calibrated to 60 degrees.

a 68 degree calibrated hydromete is what you were referring to, correct? Sorry for all the questions.


Last edited by pola0502ds on Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pola0502ds wrote:
So yesterday I brewed your APA like I said and I did a Cream ale. Both times I used Five Star Mash PH 5.2 stabilizer. It's suppose to bring it down to 5.2 but for both batches I was at 5.4ish. I just add it to the mash, not to the sparge water. I did multipal tests and the ph was consistant at 5.4. So that's another good way to drop your PH. Notes for "using your brewery". The only thing i didn't like about it is how much you have to use per 5 gallons. It only comes in a little jar and by the time I brewed 2 batches, I mike have enough for one more 10 gallon batch.

It may be a good way for some people but generally speaking I don't agree, especially if you used most of the jar for one 5 gallon batch! (The company litterature says that one tablespoon per 5 gallons is all that's needed to lock your pH to 5.2). Read my comments on this product at the bottom of this page:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/parts-list-using?page=4

Quote:
So what you said about the SG, I would take a sample and instead of cooling it down I would take a reading and then take my thermapen and get a temperature reading of the sample. I would plugin the result of the SG and the result of the temp into beersmith and that would give me the corrected reading. I also have to plug in what my hydrometer was calibrated too. In my case, mine is 70. From what I understand most at calibrated to 60 degrees.

a 68 degree calibrated hydromete is what you were referring to, correct?

Correct.

Kal

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pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I should have gave more information. I was doing (2) 10 gallon batches. The chemical calls for 1 tbl per 5 gallons. I collect 12 gallons per batch so I would put in 2 1/2 tbl of this chemical. Since I did 2 batches I used 5 tbl and I hardly have any left.

Anyway, thanks for the link. It's an eye opener. I really do need to speak with someone to understand it better.
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For taking gravity readings during the sparge, I use a refractometer. They're not as expensive as the table-top digital refractometers that I've seen mentioned here and do provide a very convenient way for measuring gravity before fermentation. The mass of liquid used is small compared to the refractometer mass and cools quickly to the temperature of the refractometer, so there is little waiting. They are auto-compensating for temperature, so no need to worry about measuring that either.

The downside is that the scale is usually in brix. You can convert approximately using 1 brix = 4 plato, but it's not exact, but good enough to determine when to stop the sparge (below 1.010 according to John Palmer.). Another downside is that brix only measures the amount of sucrose, compared to dissolved solids, but again, there is a fairly good correlation. Now that my new brewery is up and running (and makes brewday almost effortless! Thanks Kal!), I'll take readings with the refractometer and the hydrometer, to see how close the gravity is measured with both instruments.

Refractometers are not so useful once fermentation has begun, since alcohol interferes with the reading, making it much higher - the opposite of what it does to a hydrometer, so you cannot use a refractometer to measure FG directly, without applying some correction, such as the refreactometer adjustment tools found in some software (BeerSmith for one) to compenstate, but this requires several test batches where both refractometer and hydrometer measurements of FG are known.

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pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crush,

Regarding your comment of "They are auto-compensating for temperature, so no need to worry about measuring that either."

I purchased a new Atago Refractometer a while ago and I was uneducated on these devices and it was a model that did not have ATC. Can you explain what that is and how to adjust/correct for it. I did not see anything in beersmith for adjusting it so i am assuming the software things you are using a refractometer that does in fact have atc. Since I had purchased this device without ATC, I have not used it.
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked this comprehensive article on taking gravity readings with a refractometer. For refractometers without ATC, they allegedly come with conversion tables. (I spent 15 mins searching the net and didn't find one.)

You can pick them up for $10-30 on ebay, so perhaps it's simplest to buy one with ATC.

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rmessick




Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Turners Falls, MA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's one at Midwest Supplies that has ATC and shows both brix and equivalent OG scale Smile

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/refractometer-atc-with-brix-and-sg-scale.html

I might have to pick one up when they are back in stock.

-Dick
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pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So i found the chart we are speaking of. The differences are so minimal I don't think I will even use it. I don't need to be exact on figuring out the ABV..
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Sparky




Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 217
Location: Muir Beach, California


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmessick wrote:
Here's one at Midwest Supplies that has ATC and shows both brix and equivalent OG scale Smile

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/refractometer-atc-with-brix-and-sg-scale.html

I might have to pick one up when they are back in stock.

-Dick


Too bad it is out of stock. Sad
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rmessick




Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Turners Falls, MA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparky wrote:
Too bad it is out of stock. Sad


I'm a patient man, Sparky. Wink


-Dick
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blatz




Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 71
Location: Florida


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be a problem to put another ball valve in the upper quadrant right of center with a curved exit (like the HLT but perhaps longer) so that you could recirculate the wort while chilling? (of course being sure to have it low enough that you would not have oxidation issues.

This would be beneficial since my groundwater is not cool enough to necessarily get to even ale temps with one pass of a CFC or plate chiller.

Thoughts?

Also, dumb question since i have not yet built mine - when you say slow the flow down on the pump before it loses suction on the hopstopper, you do mean manually via the ball valve, right? Or do you mean you have it electrically controlled?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blatz wrote:
Would it be a problem to put another ball valve in the upper quadrant right of center with a curved exit (like the HLT but perhaps longer) so that you could recirculate the wort while chilling? (of course being sure to have it low enough that you would not have oxidation issues.

This would be beneficial since my groundwater is not cool enough to necessarily get to even ale temps with one pass of a CFC or plate chiller.

In the boil kettle? You don't want to aerate the wort when it's hot. It sounds like that would cause a lot of splashing.

Quote:
Also, dumb question since i have not yet built mine - when you say slow the flow down on the pump before it loses suction on the hopstopper, you do mean manually via the ball valve, right? Or do you mean you have it electrically controlled?

Manually with the ball valve. There are no electrically controlled valves on this setup. Some people do that but I find them to be of little value.

Kal

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blatz




Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 71
Location: Florida


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intended the output to be below the liquid line in the boil kettle. No different than jamil z's WIC or professionals that whirlpool I would think?
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blatz




Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 71
Location: Florida


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually - I just thought of a possibly better idea - hot wort through the CFC and then into the HLT with ice+water (40-50df) before going to the fermenter, though that is a long pass for a march pump (CFC +50ft of HLT coil + tubing).
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything is possible- without actually trying it myself and thinking about it for some time it's hard to come up with a definitely yes/no answer if it would be a problem.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to do however: You mention your ground water's not cold enoug to chill low enough. Recirculating can't get the wort lower than ground water temp which is what my CFC does. You need some sort of pre-chiller as you mention. I'd just pre-chill and do a one pass to keep things simple, but in the end you can try and do anything you like of course.

Kal

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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
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