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How to wire heaters direct to the main power supply?

 
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BarrieBrewer




Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Barrie, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: How to wire heaters direct to the main power supply? Reply with quote


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I've been working on my build for a while now, piecing it together a bit at a time. I'm at the point where the brew kitchen is complete but I need to prove the power supply now.

I have not built a control panel yet, and I would like to get my set up running without further delay. Eventually I will be putting in a control panel. However, for now I want to run things in manual.

I can't figure out how to run the neutral wire from the main supply to the heaters though. The 2 hots, the neutral and ground all terminate at the outlet. OK fine. But then in the build here the heaters are powered by the 2 hot lines and is grounded. No neutral wire. It's run into the control panel but I don't see how the current returns from the heaters via the neutral.

What am I missing? How do I accomplish powering the elements with 240V/30A directly from the main power without running through the control panel? (I do plan on running the circuit to the outlet through a switch first, so I have a simpler manner of killing the power without having to pull the plug out.)

THX
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do not run a neutral wire from the main supply to the heating elements as the heating elements 240V. They do not use a neutral.

For complete details see "STEP 1: Supply Power": http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=3

It explains in detail how 120V/240V works with a NEUTRAL, 2 HOTs, and a GROUND.

Kal

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BarrieBrewer




Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Barrie, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal.

I get how to wire the panel to the drier outlet. But for the plug and wires connecting up the heaters, do I just not connect the 4th terminal on the plug with a neutral wire? That's the part I just don't understand. How does the circuit get completed if the neutral terminates at the drier receptical? Is it not required to be in this case?

Sorry I've never run across a situation like this.

Thanks again.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're plugging a heating element directly into a wall socket, you do not use the neutral.

The heating elements as the heating elements 240V only. They do not use a neutral.

To quote the page I linked to earlier:

Quote:
By connecting (called 'tapping') across different pairs of the three wires we get different voltages:

120V AC: By tapping across either of the HOT lines and NEUTRAL for standard household devices such as lights, televisions, computers, etc. Single-pole breakers are used and take up one slot in your breaker panel. Approximately half of the circuit breakers in a house will use HOT 'A', with the other half HOT 'B' in order to try and balance how power is consumed.
240V AC: By tapping across the two HOT lines for power hungry devices such as electric stoves, clothes dryers, air conditioning units, baseboard heaters, etc. Double-pole breakers are used and take up two slots in your breaker panel.


So to get 240V, the neutral is not used. You do not connect it to anything. You only use the two HOTs and the GROUND.

Kal

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BarrieBrewer




Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Barrie, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal. I understand now. Cheers!!
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foomench




Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 704
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You only need the neutral if you want to tap 120V out of the 240V circuit. Think of the second hot as where the current is going, but it is also changing. Instead of being 0V all the time, it is out of phase making a bigger differential, which gives you 240V. If you compare the two hot lines to neutral, they both look like 120V circuits.

Did this help you understand what is going on, or did I just confuse you further? A waveform diagram would probably be helpful, but my first google search turned up circuits and three-phase power.

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Kevin59




Joined: 03 Aug 2012
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Location: Fort Collins, CO

Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale

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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want to get into it... Smile

http://appliantology.org/blog/1/entry-606-explanation-of-120v-single-phase-240v-split-phase-and-208v-3-phase/
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