Return to TheElectricBrewery.com
  [ Shop ]   [ Building ]   [ Using ]   [ Recipes ]   [ Testimonials ]   [ Gallery ]   [ FAQ ]   [ About Us ]   [ Contact Us ]   [ Newsletter ]

Log inLog in   RegisterRegister   User Control PanelUser Control Panel   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   MembershipClub Memberships   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums   Forum FAQForum FAQ

Grounding Studs

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Building Your Brewery
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Grounding Studs Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Hello All,

This past weekend I cut all the holes in my control panel and painted it. I just realized that my control box did not come with a grounding lug instead the box or on the lid. That means I have to add them, AFTER I PAINTED IT! Is there anyway to go about this besides the method kal describes in his instructions. He basically drilled a hole, inserted a bolt, applied epoxy and then trimmed the head of the bolt off, THEN PAINTED!

I'm wondering if I can just use epoxy right off the bat without drilling holes because i already have a finish coat of paint on it.

Any other ideas would be great as well! Thanks.
Back to top
Sparky



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 221
Location: Muir Beach, California


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pola, to get an adequate bonding on the box, you need to have good surface contact with the metal. That is for bonding the box. Everything else can be grounded through a ground bar. I have not looked at Kal's grounding of the system nor the box, but see if there is an existing bolt for hinges or the lock, etc. You basically want to get a good contact with the metal. Epoxy it to the box will not be adequate.

The more I think about it, you may be able to get a ground bushing for those plugs on the bottom of the panel. Just screw over the male adapter and you are set! It will provide a good contact with box. I think those NEMA connections are 1 1/2".
Back to top
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THanks for the response. I have a very nice metal enclosure made by Hoffman but it didn't come with gounding studs. I thought it was odd for how nice and well built it is. The enclosure I have also doesn't have a lock and the hinge is a piano hinge so it won't work.

What i'm thinking might work is, I have a seperate back panel that I will use to mount all the interior components just like the back panel on kals that is orange. The back panel sits on standoffs and is screwed to them. I'm wondering if I can use one of the screws that mounts the back panel to the stand off?

As far as your last comment goes, I know nothing about electric except for what i'm reading on Kals website. I have a buddy hooking all this up for me but I'm mounting everything. So, I have no idea what a ground bushing is or what male adapter your talking about.
Back to top
rosenjm



Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 249
Location: Ballston Spa, NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pola0502ds wrote:
What i'm thinking might work is, I have a seperate back panel that I will use to mount all the interior components just like the back panel on kals that is orange. The back panel sits on standoffs and is screwed to them. I'm wondering if I can use one of the screws that mounts the back panel to the stand off?


You should be able to use the back panel mounting screws as a ground. I would thread a bolt onto the stud, then your ground wire lugs, then the back plate, then the bolt. I have my transformers grounded that way because my ground post was getting too full.
Back to top
View user's photo album (18 photos)
crush



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a shot in the dark here, but would it be possible to solder on a ground bolt?
_________________
...just one more.
Back to top
View user's photo album (1 photos)
Sparky



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 221
Location: Muir Beach, California


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I got off my butt and took a look at the receptacles going into the panel:
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-1?page=13
All you have to do is connect a ground lug to one of those screw and run a ground wire to your ground bar. Use a serrated washer to get a good bond on that panel.
Back to top
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rosenjm wrote:
pola0502ds wrote:
What i'm thinking might work is, I have a seperate back panel that I will use to mount all the interior components just like the back panel on kals that is orange. The back panel sits on standoffs and is screwed to them. I'm wondering if I can use one of the screws that mounts the back panel to the stand off?


You should be able to use the back panel mounting screws as a ground. I would thread a bolt onto the stud, then your ground wire lugs, then the back plate, then the bolt. I have my transformers grounded that way because my ground post was getting too full.


So basically your saying to use a small threaded rod, not a bolt, to thread into the threaded hole where the back plate mounts to? I like this idea..

As far as soldering, I don't think that would work. I think the joint between the panel and the stud would be too weak and break off once you start to tighten the nut after all the ground lugs are attached. However, what about welding a threaded stud to the panel? I wonder if you would get a good joint and connection? The only problem for me, if it could work, is that my enclosure is already painted and the heat created from the weld would most likely damage the paint on the outside of the box Even though the weld is on the instead the outside of the box would heat up.
Back to top
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparky wrote:
Okay, I got off my butt and took a look at the receptacles going into the panel:
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-1?page=13
All you have to do is connect a ground lug to one of those screw and run a ground wire to your ground bar. Use a serrated washer to get a good bond on that panel.


I'm not good with electric so forgive me. Are you saying to mount a ground bar on the inside of the enclosure? To me a ground bar is a central location where all ground wires mount to then a wire from the ground bar goes to where to be ground?

Then mount only 1 ground wire to one of the screws that is use to install the outlet?
Back to top
rosenjm



Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 249
Location: Ballston Spa, NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be possible to weld a stud to the inside of the enclosure, but you are correct, it would most likely ruin the paint job.
Back to top
View user's photo album (18 photos)
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rosenjm wrote:
It would be possible to weld a stud to the inside of the enclosure, but you are correct, it would most likely ruin the paint job.


Thats what I figured. But it's good to know for other people that if you made the mistake I made, you can weld a threaded rod onto the inside of the enclosure and onto the inside of the front panel. You can also do this if you rather not drill a whole through your front panel, do the JB weld, cut the bolt head off, and then grind smooth. Welding would be much faster but you obviously need access to a welder.
Back to top
milldoggy



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 570
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried to weld a bolt, failed miserable. I had a stainless bolt, stupid me. I ended up drilling and jb'ing
Back to top
View user's photo album (12 photos)
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is stainless harder to weld? I don't know much about stainless.
Back to top
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone used a grounding bar in there control panel? If so, do you have pictures you can post?
Back to top
milldoggy



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 570
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

welding stainless to steel is not easy from what a friend of a friend who is a welder. Yes, stainless is harder to weld. I have a wire feed mig(I think) and no matter what I did, it would not stick. When I thought I was going to melt the panel, I gave up, filed and scrapped my bad welds off and drilled a hole.

If you take it to a welder, I am sure they can do it. But for what it is worth, it is easy to drill and JB, hell just leave the bolt head and paint it.
Back to top
View user's photo album (12 photos)
rosenjm



Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 249
Location: Ballston Spa, NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welding stainless is a special beast. You need to find a welder who is trained to do it and has the right equipment. I'm not a welder, but I think you need a TIG setup and the proper wire to weld stainless. I'm sure there is someone out there who knows. If you are going to go the welding route, stick with steel to steel. You can also get a "stud welder" (maybe rent) that is designed to spot weld a stud to a flat surface. No welding experience required, just pull the trigger. Having said all of that, I think it took me all of 20 minutes to move the grounding post as per Kal's direction (not counting drying time).
Back to top
View user's photo album (18 photos)
Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stainless steel is easy to weld if you know how, the thinner the metal harder it gets. The TIG (Tungsten /Inert/ gas) system is used for this type of weld. I can do it but haven't needed to for years. You can weld Stainless to mild steel with the right welding rods and or fluxes or gases. A good weld shop can weld it for you for a reasonable price if you offer them a home brew. To weld the stud you can use any mild steel bolt for this as long as it matches the lug size of your ground wires. a single stud weld should cost you very little if anything. After it cools just put a little light oil like WD40 on the stud and your good to go. Mug
Back to top
Sparky



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 221
Location: Muir Beach, California


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pola0502ds wrote:
[quote="Sparky"
All you have to do is connect a ground lug to one of those screw and run a ground wire to your ground bar. Use a serrated washer to get a good bond on that panel.


Are you saying to mount a ground bar on the inside of the enclosure? [/quote]

I said ground LUG, not ground bar.
Okay, you guys are getting off in the ditch here.
(1) put a LUG on one of those screws that connects the outlet at the bottom of the panel. This will bond the panel.
(2) install a ground bar in the panel. You can used a raised bar with (2) plastic mounts and epoxy the plastic to the (inside) panel with the ground bar. You buy this as a "neutral" bar kit in any electrical store.
(3) connect all your panel grounding to this ground bar.
(4) connect your ground bar to the incoming ground.

Now your panel and all its components are grounded and you did not put any more holes in the panel. Wink
Back to top
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats for clearing that up sparky, I think I may use this method.
Back to top
Sparky



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 221
Location: Muir Beach, California


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a photo of what I was talking about. Epoxy the plastic portion to the inside box. This will be your grounding for the other units in the panel and you will bond the panel to this bar. The Ground LUG (not pictured) would be for that bolt and then you run a wire to the bar, grounding the panel box. And, remember, keep the ground and neutral's separate.


images.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  5 KB
 Viewed:  15896 Time(s)

images.jpg


Back to top
pola0502ds



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks buddy, I got it taken care of yesterday..
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Building Your Brewery All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Support our site by purchasing through this link. We thank you!

Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group