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waltherjt
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Fresno, CA
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 Link Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:06 am Post subject: Water Heater Element Wiring |
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I'm in the process of building my electric brewery. Kind of doing it slow, one piece at a time. Today I installed a 4 wire outlet in the garage where I will be brewing. I understand wiring pretty good, I wired my whole house and a subpanel in my garage. This week I would like to get a water heater element going in my HLT. I will wire the black and red to the element and ground it, but what the heck do I do with the neutral wire? I am buying an appliance cord that works with my outlet, which will go into a junction box. The heater element wires will also go into it. There will be 4 wires going in, and only 3 coming out of the element. Does the white go to ground? Someone please help me understand this simple problem.
Jeff
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rosenjm
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 249
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
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| Link Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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So if i understand what you're asking, you are going to bypass the control panel and want to wire the heating element directly to your 4 prong outlet? The CP uses a 4 prong outlet to power it because the 4th wire is required for the GFCI. The cable coming from the CP to the element is only a 3 wire cable, black, red and ground.
If you want to hook the element to the 4 prong outlet temporarily while you built the CP, you can attach the ground and neutral together (that is what happens in your main circuit breaker box anyway). I would however, recommend not doing this unless the breaker feeding your receptical is a GFCI breaker. You might also want to have some method of turning the element off and on with out having to plug it in or pull the plug under load.
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Castermmt
Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 863
Location: Lowell, In
Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale
Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Water Heater Element Wiring |
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| waltherjt wrote: | | I'm in the process of building my electric brewery. Kind of doing it slow, one piece at a time. Today I installed a 4 wire outlet in the garage where I will be brewing. I understand wiring pretty good, I wired my whole house and a subpanel in my garage. This week I would like to get a water heater element going in my HLT. I will wire the black and red to the element and ground it, but what the heck do I do with the neutral wire? I am buying an appliance cord that works with my outlet, which will go into a junction box. The heater element wires will also go into it. There will be 4 wires going in, and only 3 coming out of the element. Does the white go to ground? Someone please help me understand this simple problem. |
The NEUTRAL is not used by the heating elements. Heating elements require 240V which you get by going from one HOT to the other HOT (240V differential). Neutral is only needed and used if you require 120V. In your case it is not needed so you do not use it.
DO NOT CONNECT THE NEUTRAL TO THE GROUND ANYWHERE OTHER THAN IN YOUR HOUSE BREAKER BOX. THIS IS AGAINST CODE IN MOST LOCATIONS INCLUDING (MOST LIKELY) CALIFORNIA!
This is mentioned here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=3
I agree with the last poster too - you want some way to control the element. You really should not use a wall plug as a switch and connect/disconnect the element by plugging it in/unplugging it. That's really not a safe or agood thing to do. I'm not sure if that's what you have in mind however.
You mentioned you wired your whole house yourself... Some of your comments worry me a bit and I mean this with good intentions/safety in mind: Did you have all your work inspected by a certified electrician?
Kal
_________________
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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waltherjt
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Fresno, CA
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| Link Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Water Heater Element Wiring |
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| kal wrote: | | waltherjt wrote: | | I'm in the process of building my electric brewery. Kind of doing it slow, one piece at a time. Today I installed a 4 wire outlet in the garage where I will be brewing. I understand wiring pretty good, I wired my whole house and a subpanel in my garage. This week I would like to get a water heater element going in my HLT. I will wire the black and red to the element and ground it, but what the heck do I do with the neutral wire? I am buying an appliance cord that works with my outlet, which will go into a junction box. The heater element wires will also go into it. There will be 4 wires going in, and only 3 coming out of the element. Does the white go to ground? Someone please help me understand this simple problem. |
The NEUTRAL is not used by the heating elements. Heating elements require 240V which you get by going from one HOT to the other HOT (240V differential). Neutral is only needed and used if you require 120V. In your case it is not needed so you do not use it.
DO NOT CONNECT THE NEUTRAL TO THE GROUND ANYWHERE OTHER THAN IN YOUR HOUSE BREAKER BOX. THIS IS AGAINST CODE IN MOST LOCATIONS INCLUDING (MOST LIKELY) CALIFORNIA!
This is mentioned here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=3
I agree with the last poster too - you want some way to control the element. You really should not use a wall plug as a switch and connect/disconnect the element by plugging it in/unplugging it. That's really not a safe or agood thing to do. I'm not sure if that's what you have in mind however.
You mentioned you wired your whole house yourself... Some of your comments worry me a bit and I mean this with good intentions/safety in mind: Did you have all your work inspected by a certified electrician?
Kal |
I'm doing this with only the HLT for now just to see if I like brewing electrically in the garage before putting a few thousand into the whole system. I definitely to plan to put together a control panel soon. For now I will use the HLT to get the water to a set temp and then transfer the water to the mash tun. In the beginning, i won't be turning it on and off, so I figured I could turn it off with the breaker. It is not far away. Is there any problem with turning off the element with the breaker 1 time?
I wired the 50 amp outlet with a range type receptacle using 6/3 wire so I can use 240 and 120 in the cp as well as run 2 elements at once. I realize I don't need the neutral from the outlet right now, but appliance cord I am using has a neutral wire in it. My ulimate question is what to do with the wire at the end of the appliance cord. 5 minutes after my original post I realized I could probably just put a wire cap on it and use the two hots and ground only. Is that the proper way to do it?
The house was just built 2 years ago. I did have an electrician friend look at it, and the inspector spent nearly an hour on the rough inspection alone. There were a few corrections to be made, but nothing that would have made it unsafe. The hired out plumbing had more corrections than my electrical!
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Water Heater Element Wiring |
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| waltherjt wrote: | | In the beginning, i won't be turning it on and off, so I figured I could turn it off with the breaker. It is not far away. Is there any problem with turning off the element with the breaker 1 time? |
Something should not be designed such that the circuit breaker is used as the switch to control it. Also should not be done under load.
Yes, it'll technically "work". I'm telling you what's correct so you'll never hear me say "yes you can do that". 
| waltherjt wrote: | | I wired the 50 amp outlet with a range type receptacle using 6/3 wire so I can use 240 and 120 in the cp as well as run 2 elements at once. I realize I don't need the neutral from the outlet right now, but appliance cord I am using has a neutral wire in it. My ulimate question is what to do with the wire at the end of the appliance cord. 5 minutes after my original post I realized I could probably just put a wire cap on it and use the two hots and ground only. Is that the proper way to do it? |
Yes.
| waltherjt wrote: | | The house was just built 2 years ago. I did have an electrician friend look at it, and the inspector spent nearly an hour on the rough inspection alone. There were a few corrections to be made, but nothing that would have made it unsafe. The hired out plumbing had more corrections than my electrical! |
Good stuff!
Kal
_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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brewmcq
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Northern Maine
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| Link Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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It's been a busy semester.. I hope everyone is doing well...
I have a few more parts in... and want to get my elements installed in my BK... I'm still lightyears away from a fancy control panel, and after reading this thread, it has been confirmed that I shouldn't plug/unplug the outlet to turn my element on and off. 
So..
What can I use for a switch?
Thanks!
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pola0502ds
Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:48 am Post subject: |
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When you have a heating element that uses only 2 wires, does it matter which goes where? Hot and neutral that is.
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rcrabb22
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 462
Location: Illinois
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| pola0502ds wrote: | | When you have a heating element that uses only 2 wires, does it matter which goes where? Hot and neutral that is. |
It doesn't matter which terminal gets which wire, but it does matter which wires are connected based on if you are wiring 120V (HOT + NEUTRAL) or 240V (HOT + HOT).
Try reading this little description on how 120V and 240V are similar but different!! I found it really helpful.
http://www.nojolt.com/Understanding_240_volt_circuits.shtml
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11122
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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