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Control Panel Power Cord
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:38 am    Post subject: Control Panel Power Cord Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Control Panel Power Cord



Power cords are available for both our 30A and 50A control panels.

The power cords are 10 feet long (custom lengths are available) and feature a locking female connector on the control panel side for added safety.

For more information visit our order page. GO


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Last edited by kal on Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:37 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

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PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went with a used Siemens 30 amp GFCI breaker I bought on E bay, installed in my home panel to power my control panel. Only paid $45 USD. Just another idea if anyone can use. Castermmt

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5574906687&toolid=10001&campid=5336652980&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2FSiemens-2P-30-Amp-GFCI-BF230-Circuit-Breaker-%2F290547893254%3Fpt%3DBI_Circuit_Breakers_Transformers%26hash%3Ditem43a6010406

(Link modified to support our site!)
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NattyBrew



Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 29



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

I am one of the current users of the Xerox power cord with the built in GFI. Are you recommending that anyone using that cord replace it with a GFI Circuit Breaker and regular cord? I guess the even better question is Mr. Safety himself, Kal going to continue using the cord? I am obviously not trying to be cavalier with my own safety here obviously. Thanks!

Matt
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People should just look at the facts and decide for themselves as I believe that code varies from one region/country to another. A 'Class A' GFI that trips at 5mA will obviously be safer than one that is meant to protect machinery and trips at 10mA.

From what I understand this is how current affects the human body:

1mA : minimal perception level.
5 mA : GFCI trip level.
10 mA : Average Adult "Let-Go" Threshold.
15 mA : Muscles 'freeze' in 50% of the population.
30 mA : Difficult breathing, fibrillation in a small child.
0.05A to 0.1A : Possible ventricular fibrillation.
0.1A to 0.2A : Certain ventricular fibrillation
4A + : Heart paralysis, tissue and organ damage.

From wikipedia:

Quote:
Sensitivity

RCD sensitivity is expressed as the rated residual operating current, noted IΔn. Preferred values have been defined by the IEC, thus making it possible to divide RCDs into three groups according to their IΔn value.

High sensitivity (HS): 6 10 30 mA (for direct-contact / life injury protection)
Medium sensitivity (MS): 100 300 500 1000 mA (for fire protection)
Low sensitivity (LS): 3 10 30 A (typically for protection of machine)


I will likely replace mine.

Kal

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NattyBrew



Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 29



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely appreciate you digging up the facts Kal, and big respect to you obviously for making the call on pulling the Xerox cord from sale on your site. I will likely continue to use my GFI Xerox Cord for now until I can find a little bit of a better deal on a GFI breaker for my circuit breaker panel.

Obviously trying to save some money is not worth skimping on safety. This may be a future upgrade for me.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't call these cords unsafe, they're just not up to US NEC code. Go back far enough in time and GFI's even in the US had a 20 or 30mA cutoff if I read correctly. I believe 10mA is still used in some places like the wiki quote above mentions. But in the end, since it's not to US NEC code we feel it best to not list them. Everyone can make their own choice as to whether to use one or not in the end.

Kal

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crush



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wiring a DIN-mounted GFCI into the control panel. It trips on 30mA. Doesn't feel very safe now I've read these figures, yet as I understand it, is within the IEC regulations.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Europe, New Zealand, and Australia are all 30mA if I remember correctly. They must have thicker skin than Americans. Wink

Kal

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crush



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe, thicker skins, let's hope so! and let's hope rubber feet too. Wink
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Grandequeso



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Jacksonville, Fl


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year I did some contract electrical work overseas. We did a lot of testing of rcds. When testing rcd, rcbo...ect. the trip time is measured in milliseconds. (thousands of a second) If I remeber right the maximun time time to open the circuit under fault was 200ms. I've seen guys (fellas way bolder than me) trip them out on between their hand and a grounded object. The rcd's trip so fast you can't even feel it. I wouldn't be concerned at all about using a 30ma rcd (gfci) that is basically the standard used for personal protection in the UK and their safety standards are a decade or so ahead of ours. 3ma can technically kill you, these devices work by how fast they open the circuit.
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Sparky



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 221
Location: Muir Beach, California


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grandequeso,
Interesting post. What have you found in your testing for North America GFCI's? And, any comparisons with the main consumer brands (Square D, GE, Murray/Siemens, Cutler Hammer)?
Thanks,
Sparky
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Grandequeso



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Jacksonville, Fl


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't actually own the meter to test the equipt here in the US, The one I used overseas belonged to the company I was working for. Its about $1200 and I'm not sure that Fluke or Megger make one that will work on 60hz either. If I did have one it'd be interesting to do a loop impedance test on the kettle to see how well the jb weld bonding of the kettle really is. The meter we used most was Fluke model 1653b. Its a pretty neat tool. Besides doing all the time and sensitivity tests on rcds, you can do earth loop impedance tests to find the pfc (prospective fault current) at any point in the grounding system. In the UK I believe people are supposed to have their residences tested any time there is a change of tenants or every 5 or 10 years. Thats a major difference between their electrical safety and ours. Our installations are glanced over by an inspector once maybe, and thats about it. The BS (British Standard) requires that installations be regularly tested and recorded. every lamp, receptacle, switch ect... gets taken apart and tested.
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crush



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grandequeso/Sparky, this is the rcbo I bought:

NEW WYLEX RCBO C 32 AMP 30ma RCD MCB NSBS32 BS61009 6KA.

I have only slow fuses in my consumer unit, so I planned to install this inside the control panel itself, right after the power inlet. Is this ok? I understand the electrics of the panel, but I'm not an electrician, and some of the discussion of rcd's goes above my head.

Thanks for any insight!

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Grandequeso



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Jacksonville, Fl


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you're doing 230volt I'm assuming. You'd want a 32amp 30ma two pole rcd or rcbo. The difference between a rcbo and a rcd is that a rcd will only provide ground fault protection (residual current) while a rcbo does both ground fault and overcurrent protection. Do a ebay search for "32amp rcd" and you will find both types. If the fuse that you feeding out of your panel is larger than 32 amps it would be a good idea to go with the rcbo.
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sjch



Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 46
Location: Norway


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

would one of these be a suitable alternative (for 230 V in Europe)


https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3~no_en/elfa/init.do?item=36-098-41&toc=0
https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3~no_en/elfa/init.do?item=36-006-57&toc=18771
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crush



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grandequeso wrote:
you're doing 230volt I'm assuming. You'd want a 32amp 30ma two pole rcd or rcbo. The difference between a rcbo and a rcd is that a rcd will only provide ground fault protection (residual current) while a rcbo does both ground fault and overcurrent protection. Do a ebay search for "32amp rcd" and you will find both types. If the fuse that you feeding out of your panel is larger than 32 amps it would be a good idea to go with the rcbo.


Thanks for the help Grandequeso. I've already bought the breaker I linked to some moths ago. It is a rcbo, 32A, but only single pole. Do I have to put this is the bin and get a double pole? The supply is polarized, I was planning on having the rcbo will break the live side of the circuit.

The fuse on this circuit is 30A, but it's a slow fuse - apparently they can take 1.4x rated current for an hour before blowing.

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Grandequeso



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
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Location: Jacksonville, Fl


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crush: the breaker in the link technically is a double pole. It breaks (opens) both the hot & nuetral. Depending on where you are at in the world people call them by different names. In the US we would call it a single pole GFCI breaker, but either way its good that you got the right one. I would'nt worry about the 30 amp fuses vs the 32amp rcbo. 2amps is a pretty small difference when it comes to overcurrent protection. 32amps is basically the new standard these days for people on 230volt 50hz systems. 15 amps have been replaced with 16 and 30a with 32... has something to do with trip curves or something like that... a bit above my head as I'm just a field electrician

Sjch: The first link is a rcd and is only rated for 25 amps, you'd be better off with a device rated for 32amps so that you didn't exceed the rating of the terminals, it would work just not ideal. The second link is a rcbo rated for 40amps that is fine assuming that the wire you run to it is rated to handle 40amps, you'd want to breaker to trip before the wire overheats. Most of the "The Electric Brewery" is designed around a 30 amp system so its probably a good idea to stick as close to the plans as possible.
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crush



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the confirmation Grandequeso. I'm pleased to hear I can use it, since it's already screwed into my control panel backplate. Very Happy
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: Information on the 50A control panel power cord has been added to the first post of this thread and to the power cord order page.

Kal

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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Kal,
That is a REALLY good price on the 50A extension cable. I made a 30' cable and the plug itself was almost $100. If I didn't need 30' of extension I would have turned out so much better just purchasing the cable from you.
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