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cam and groove fittings (camlocks)

 
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: cam and groove fittings (camlocks) Reply with quote


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Seems a few of us are using camlocks for the build rather than the morebeer quick disconnects. When I ordered, the B3 QDs were out of stock (everywhere!) the other alternative was triclamp sanitary disconnects, which seemed overkill. So I wen't for the cams.

Over on HBT, folks are saying that the male barbed connectors have quite a small diameter (0.35" IIRC), which is about half the area of a true 1/2" fitting. A smaller area reduces the maximum flow. The solution is to use the threaded fittings, since these have a larger opening, either by grinding off the threads, or attaching to an elbow, and grinding the threads off that.

I was running out of time, and didn't have access to a grinder, so I've not done this, and just bought the barbed fittings. With the brewery setup we have, will the restricted flow be a problem? It seems the ball valves are used to restrict the flow most of the time?

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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flow should be fine with barbs. The only thing that flow may hurt you on is whirlpooling. I am just ocd so I ordered the street elbows. I also like the right angle, fits in your hand nice and also gravity does not kink the hose. I tried an angle grinder and it was just to hard. I picked up a 6 in HF grinder for 35 that came with the course and medium wheel. I screwed a 3 in pipe into a street elbow as a jig to hold the street elbow I was brining. I used the course wheel to most of the material off, then the medium to smooth them out. Took about 1.5 hours for 10 of them.

The thought process for taking the thread off is that the threads could cut the soft hoses and liquid could get stuck in the threads and possible be a containiment
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kaikoasurf




Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 96



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crush, why would you need to grind the cam locks? What is the purpose. Not questioning you just want to be educated Smile
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are not talking about grinding the camlocks, grinding the street elbow threads. The cams screw into the street female end, the hose goes over the male end, I choose to grind the threads.
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kaikoasurf wrote:
Crush, why would you need to grind the cam locks? What is the purpose. Not questioning you just want to be educated Smile


Sorry kalkoasurf, I saw your question on the other thread and forgot to answer here! Thanks for repeating!

I don't mind being questioned, keeps me on my toes, and I hope this is in some way educating!

The camlock connectors (the part we are putting on the hoses) comes in 3 connection types:
1. a barb (camlock style C)
2. male NPT (MPT) (style B)
3. female NPT (FPT) (style D)

As you would expect, the hose goes directly onto the barb, so it's convenient, but the barb is quite a narrow diameter compared to the 1/2" that it could be. In the eternal quest for the perfect brewery, some guys think the barbs are too narrow and that they restrict flow too much.

With the B and D style cams, the male and the female pipe fittings are a full 1/2" wide. Using an elbow gives the full 1/2" flow for a god price (about $4 each).. It is also possible to get 1/2" full flow barb x 1/2" MPT that would do the same job, but they are just under $10 each - almost twice as much as the camlock itself. (http://www.brewershardware.com/1-2-Threaded-Hose-Barb-TFB58.html)

So, if getting full flow is important, taking the less-expensive option, you add SS elbows to each fitting. As milldoggy said, griding down the threads on the elbow protects the hose and is a little more sanitary.

Lots of guys have done this over on HBT and it seems to work. For me, the risk of the hoses slipping off (especially when they get hot and softer) is more of a sleep-breaker than the reduced flow. But that's what's great about this hobby, there is no one "right" way - we get to do what we personally feel is best...until someone else shows us a better way! Very Happy

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dutch101st




Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 75



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have camlocks on my brewery and the flow is just fine...like you said, the choices and differences in each person's rig is what make this hobby a good one!
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kaikoasurf




Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 96



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Crush for that Education! i'm still trying to find a different method of tubing instead of using that food grade tubing..... looking for something like braided SS or maybe just plumb the darn thing in with SS tubing (nightmare)
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only other option I can think of is hard pumping with copper piping or stainless tubing.
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kaikoasurf




Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 96



PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gonna do mine with SS plumbing.
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Sparky




Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 217
Location: Muir Beach, California


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome thread!
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using soft or rigid stainless? I was looking around for 5/8 bendable stainless but did not find any. I want to keep my id at 1/2 all the way through.

Btw, isn't hard plumbing with stainless costly?
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Sparky




Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 217
Location: Muir Beach, California


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, not sure based on the above comment, which of these fittings are used for the system???
http://store.proflowdynamics.com/modules/store/-Couplings-for-Homebrewers-_C12074.cfm
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went with 16 Type F's. I have two re-circ couplers in my BK in case I install a built in IC, so I needed a few more. I also got 12 Type B, again a few extra. My Type B screw into 90 degree street elbows so I have a consistent 1/2 from dip tube all the way through the end. My dip tube is 5/8 soft copper, with an ID of 1/2.
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually wish I ordered a few Type A for my pump, then I would not have to use a coupler or an elbow from the inlet to the type F. But in my OCD, I ordered a bunch of spare elbows, nipples, street elbows, etc from bargin fittings. Hate not having enough stuff. Rather have more.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: cam and groove fittings (camlocks) Reply with quote

crush wrote:
I was running out of time, and didn't have access to a grinder, so I've not done this, and just bought the barbed fittings. With the brewery setup we have, will the restricted flow be a problem?

I have zero problems. With the pumps wide open the water entering the HLT is shot back in like a firehose.
Same with the MLT recirc... I wouldn't want it any faster.

Quote:
It seems the ball valves are used to restrict the flow most of the time?

For water recirc in the HLT the water pump's open 100%.
For sweet wort recirc in the MLT I also have it open 100%.
For sparging both pumps are close to closed since we want to sparge slowly over ~90 mins.
When chilling it depends on the final wort temp I'm trying to acheive and the chilling water temp, but the pump is usually pretty closed.

Flow rate with the setup I describe has never been an issue for me.

Kal

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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was original planning on whirlpooling, that is why I was concerned with flow. From what I read, that is only where it matters. I have not put it to test yet though.
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