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Heating element
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Heating element Reply with quote


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The Camco 5500W Ripp element is out of stock in all the places I searched.

Camco do make another 5500W element - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006JLVC6?ie=UTF8&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0006JLVC6
will this be a suitable replacement? Are the screw threads on these elements a standard size and will take the 1" NPS locknut?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Says it's a 4500W element, not 5500W. It's low density instead of ultra-low density.

To quote my site:

Quote:
There is however one very good reason to use ULWD elements over regular elements: They won't break if fired up "dry" (not immersed in water). When a regular element is fired up "dry" the element will pop fairly quickly (usually before you notice your mistake!) as there is no water to dissipate the heat. While nobody means to fire up an element by mistake, mistakes do happen. Using ULWD elements provides you with a little bit of insurance against these human errors. Brew long enough and one day you will forget that you have your element switch in the on position when you first fire up your control panel. Popping an element is about the last thing you want given that you've likely already milled your grain and have everything ready to go.


AFAIK all water heater elements use the same size lock nut.

Kal

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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I linked the wrong element. I meant this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RD7MK0?ie=UTF8&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001RD7MK0

This one is 5500W and 50W per square inch (ULWD).
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Münsterjeger




Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Vestfold, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am thinking of an idea for us who use normal elements that would break if dry-fired.

Putting this between the PID and SSR.
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brewmcq




Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Northern Maine


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stumbled across some more of those Camco 5500W Ripp elements: http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-4035/Detail

YMMV, use at your own risk, etc.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crush wrote:
Ah, I linked the wrong element. I meant this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RD7MK0?ie=UTF8&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001RD7MK0

This one is 5500W and 50W per square inch (ULWD).


Interesting. It's indeed the same watts/inch like the ones I use, but it doesn't have the same zigzag pattern. For it to be 50W/inch the total length has to be the same which probably means it's longer than the zigzag one I use (?) so be careful to make sure it fits. The order page doesn't mention length. Maybe it's longer?

The float switch is an interesting idea. All things said and done, I try and limit the number of cables to/from the kettle to simplify connecting/reconnecting when cleaning the boil kettle (MLT would be fine). I wonder how easy it would be to clean too and if that float switch would be ok in boiling wort.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that higher density elements can be damaged when fired dry. With my new safe start interlock on the control panel the odds of firing up an element are greatly reduced.

Given all the other things that need to be built, I'd just wait a few days and then check back to see if the original elements are available again. I think this site has helped sell them out in many places. Wink They should be back in stock soon I'd imagine. I had the same issue with many of the parts I used...

Kal

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JTylerSingletary




Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Tampa, Florida


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Münsterjeger wrote:
I am thinking of an idea for us who use normal elements that would break if dry-fired.

Putting this between the PID and SSR.


Where would you mount this? Just above the top of the element, I'm guessing? And, to what does the wiring attach to? The link is very indescriptive. Thanks.
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Münsterjeger




Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Vestfold, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would mount this inside the kettle wall.
Wiring would simplified be on for instance "+" on the PID and "+" on the SSR. Resulting that the SSR gets runing voltage only when liquid is in the kettle.

But as Kal says, the 8-pin safety relay is really a good system preventing this from happening. Though I havent found this for 240V on e-bay...
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Münsterjeger wrote:
I am thinking of an idea for us who use normal elements that would break if dry-fired.

Putting this between the PID and SSR.


Hehe, I had exactly the same thought! I agree with Kal about the excess of cables and the relatively small chances of this happening, but for those that want to, this could perhaps be bundled with the thermometer cable to cut down on the spaghetti. (I forget, is the thermometer using all 3 pins on the XLR connector? If it is, just add new XLR connector at the end, either way, there is just one cord coming from the kettle.)

Watch out though, that particular float switch is rated to 100V. Breakdown voltage is 220V which means if you connect it up to your control panel at 220-240V, the switch will appear permanently closed (current flows) and it may be damaged. If you have 12-24V in there, you could of course use that. Alternatively, there are other SS float switches rated to 220V (breakdown at 300V) from various sellers on ebay, although I didn't see one rated for 230V with the right angle bend. Let me know if you find one!

I was thinking of using these SS float switches to control the pump for automated fly sparging, so the flow rates don't have to be exact. But that raises more questions than answers, so I'll save that for another day!
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Münsterjeger wrote:
I would mount this inside the kettle wall.
Wiring would simplified be on for instance "+" on the PID and "+" on the SSR. Resulting that the SSR gets runing voltage only when liquid is in the kettle.

But as Kal says, the 8-pin safety relay is really a good system preventing this from happening. Though I havent found this for 240V on e-bay...


There is a mechanical relay already in the circuit controlling each element, you could also connect it to the coil on that, in series with the connection to one of the contact blocks on the 3 position selector. (Assuming the float is normally open and closed when water is present.) I think it amounts to the same thing, but organization-wise, it keeps the safety aspects in one area, separate from the control aspects.

I think you can use any of the 8-pin or 11-pin relay for the safe start interlock, as long as it's min of 2 pole 2 throw (DPDT).
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crush wrote:
I forget, is the thermometer using all 3 pins on the XLR connector?


Yes. RTD's use 3 wires.

Kal

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Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
crush wrote:
I forget, is the thermometer using all 3 pins on the XLR connector?


Yes. RTD's use 3 wires.

Kal


They do, ok, thanks. Hehe! "Thermometer".... I haven't gotten quite used to the lingo yet. Temperature probe...temperature probe...
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brewmcq




Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Northern Maine


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possibility for a heating element, since Amazon still doesn't have the Camco ones in stock yet:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H5RRS6?ie=UTF8&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000H5RRS6

YMMV
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit - May Bad, just noticed it says out of stock, sorry

I ordered mine from Rons Hardware. They came in 3 days. looks like they are in stock there.
There price is better to Amazon to.

http://www.ronshomeandhardware.com/2963-5500W-240V-Ripp-Element-p/808790.htm
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brewmcq




Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Northern Maine


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quantity in Stock:
(Out of Stock)


Bummer.

I was looking for options on Amazon to help out Kal, which I'll do unless I can get something locally, which is highly improbable considering I live in the middle of nowhere.. lol
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about these

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H5RRS6?ie=UTF8&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000H5RRS6
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brewmcq




Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Northern Maine


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL.. I just posted that one. Smile

Since I'm going to be sticking with ~5 gal batches, I'm thinking that a 240vac 4500w ULWD element will serve my purposes fine for now. As I upgrade, of course, I'll be happy to move to the higher-watt elements.


Edited to add:
Of course, if I don't get off my lazy butt and start cleaning the basement, I'm not going to have a brewery, so off the forums and into the cellar with me! Smile
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wish I was home and working on mine, stupid job, making me work Smile
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milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 569
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

while on the topic of elements, anyone try using a 1" half coupler with these? I am using keggles and will have the fitting welded on. I was going to half a 1" NPS welded on, but I figured I try a 1" half NPT coupler. Should be here tomorrow, so I can try and see how it threads, just wondering if anyone else tried. I am sure I could search HBT and find the answer, but I am being lazy.
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brewmcq




Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Northern Maine


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milldoggy wrote:
wish I was home and working on mine, stupid job, making me work Smile


No fear.. when I work, I work a crapload of hours, then have a whole bunch of days off. EMS = Earn Money Sleeping. LOL
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