Return to TheElectricBrewery.com
  [ Shop ]   [ Building ]   [ Using ]   [ Recipes ]   [ Testimonials ]   [ Gallery ]   [ FAQ ]   [ About Us ]   [ Contact Us ]   [ Newsletter ]

Log inLog in   RegisterRegister   User Control PanelUser Control Panel   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   MembershipClub Memberships   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums   Forum FAQForum FAQ

Heating element rust
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 10, 11, 12  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Electric Brewing
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 570
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
already have the extra coupling, might try it out, cant hurt, right? I also assume that there is no problem boiling magnesium and the acidic wort will not leach anything from it, right?

thanks!
Back to top
View user's photo album (12 photos)
bbognerks




Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Wichita, KS


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure on the last part. This was brought up on HBT and I am going to submit my water and a boiled sample to WARD for analysis. All I know is I'd rather have magnesium leech in than aluminum. Magnesium is healthy for yeast and humans in small quantities. This anode is made to be used in a hot water heater, so I'm not really worried about health issues. I'm more worried about having too much magnesium in the water causing off flavors, however subtle they may be. People have been using magnesium fire starters with no problems. I would think this would be a much better alternative as it's made for water heaters and that's essential what our e-systems are.
Back to top
milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 570
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You convinced me, I need a few other things from Amazon and Free Super Saver Shipping always makes me buy more. I ordered two. I would be interested in the water results. How hard is silver solder? I would need to add one more coupler to my HLT. I already have a spare in my BK. I might just take it to the welder down the road, he might do it for free.
Back to top
View user's photo album (12 photos)
bbognerks




Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Wichita, KS


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you only need 1 fitting, it's not worth the cost involved. To silver solder couplers, you need a keg tool which makes a dimple. The parts for that are ~$30. Then you need the actual silver solder and flux which are about $12. Those little kits are enough to solder about 8 fittings. Now if you need other fittings like locknuts, hex nipples, or bushings, then it's making a case for doing it yourself. You don't need the keg tool for the other types of fittings.

Since you would need a coupler for the anode, then you would need the keg tool. If your welder is going to charge you $50 for 1 coupler, then it may be worth it to do it yourself.

If you plan on doing a lot of couplings for yourself and friends, then you'd want a keg tool, a pound of silver solder, and a large bottle of flux. That should be enough for at least 100 fittings if not 200, making the total cost around $0.50 - $0.75 per fitting. I went ahead and got the keg tool because I have several friends that wanted it done. I thought it was a good investment and will continue to help out members of my brew club.
Back to top
milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 570
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, going to try the friendly welder or go weldless. Thanks for the info,
Back to top
View user's photo album (12 photos)
bbognerks




Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Wichita, KS


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an update. I followed through with the water sample test. The increase in magnesium was maybe 1ppm in a 1 hour boil. The 2 different samples measured a 3ppm difference. But, taking into consideration the concentration increases of the other solids in my water due to the boiloff of 1.5 gallons of water, it increased at roughly the same ratio. So there is no risk of extra magnesium significantly altering the water profile during boiling.
Back to top
silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:07 pm    Post subject: Rust!! Reply with quote

Two updates:

i put the aluminum locknut on my BK and the SS locknut in my HLT. no rust in the BK but very small amounts in the HLT. i do not leave water in any of my kettles and clean and dry them as best i can after each session. yesterday i stopped in at an RV dealer and picked up a mag anode from the parts dept. drilled a new hole and installed it in the HLT with a couple SS washers, a silicone sealing washer and a SS locknut ( all parts left over from the build, except anode ). no leaks.. took less than 5 minutes.

we'll see if it works

Silverspoons
Back to top
View user's photo album (6 photos)
crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm alarmed to hear you're getting rust even after drying out the kettles after use. Do I need to be alarmed? I'm following Kal's build to the letter regarding the kettles. I don't know anywhere local I can get magnesium anodes. I'm also not sure how they would do any good if the kettle is dry?

I'm a bit tired, so probably missing something obvious to everyone else! Very Happy

_________________
...just one more.
Back to top
View user's photo album (1 photos)
pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone once told me that if you have rust in your kettle, clean it up good then brew the same day. The acids from the wort will take care of it from coming back. I don't know how true that is but it may help.
Back to top
bbognerks




Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Wichita, KS


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crush wrote:
I'm alarmed to hear you're getting rust even after drying out the kettles after use. Do I need to be alarmed? I'm following Kal's build to the letter regarding the kettles. I don't know anywhere local I can get magnesium anodes. I'm also not sure how they would do any good if the kettle is dry?

I'm a bit tired, so probably missing something obvious to everyone else! Very Happy


I think what's happening is that the rust is forming while there is water in the vessel. Then when it's dried, it becomes visible and starts flaking/powdering. That's similar to what I experienced after trying POR15. Nothing visible while wet. Once it was dry, nice orange/brown stuff all over the threads. You can order the anodes from Amazon. I provided a link earlier in this thread. If nothing else, perhaps you can get a part number to go by.

Nothing really to be alarmed by. Ingesting rust in the minute quantities that the element face would generate will not harm you. After all, iron is needed in the diet. But, we all know that rust flavor and it could cause off flavors in the beer. If you are following Kal's build to the T, hopefully you won't have rust problems. I wouldn't worry about it until you have a problem.

pola0502ds wrote:
Someone once told me that if you have rust in your kettle, clean it up good then brew the same day. The acids from the wort will take care of it from coming back. I don't know how true that is but it may help.


This is true in a BK. But, if his problem was like mine, I was having rust primarily in the HLT. Plain old tap water isn't typically acidic. Hence it won't prevent the rust.
Back to top
pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having the same issue of rust build up on the face of my element but it is in a RIMS tube. Anyone have any ideas how I can solve this problem using the same method listed in this thread?

But, say on brew day, the only time I have a liquid in the RIMS tube is during the mash. Would that be enough time to form rust? I'm hoping that it doesn't and that just cleaning it right after I'm done will solve the problem.
Back to top
pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbognerks,

Your method of attaching the anode to your kettle, on a RIMS system, do you think I can get away with installing it just like you have but the only difference would be that my element is in a RIMS tube and in a completely different vessel?


Last edited by pola0502ds on Tue May 17, 2011 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
It'll be repeated in my "USING YOUR BREWERY" article to make sure people see it, but here's a snippet that I posted here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

Quote:
A note on rust: These heating elements are normally used in electric water heaters that also have a sacrificial anode installed. The anode's sole purpose is to oxidize first, protecting the heating element base from rusting. Our kettles do not have an anode so make sure to not leave water in the Boil Kettle or Hot Liquor Tank for many days on end. Leaving water in during a typical brewing period is not an issue. In fact, a coating that protects will form on the element base in the Boil Kettle after a few uses. It's more an issue in the Hot Liquor Tank if you leave water standing for a long time (many days).


One thing that'll work too as an anode is a 1" locknut made out of aluminum instead of stainless steel.

Been meaning to order a couple of those myself just for safety.

Kal


Safety from what?
Back to top
bbognerks




Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Wichita, KS


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pola0502ds wrote:
bbognerks,

Your method of attaching the anode to your kettle, on a RIMS system, do you think I can get away with installing it just like you have but the only difference would be that my element is in a RIMS tube and in a completely different vessel?


I'm not sure exactly what your asking. If you are saying to install the anode in a rims tube to protect the element in the tube, then that should work. You just need to account for it when putting your RIMS system together. The RV anodes are about 6" long, so you need to make sure you have the space. Perhaps you could hack it down to a nub or something. Come to think of it, I might just try that to be on the safe side...

If, however, you are thinking you can protect the element in the rims tube by putting an anode in your HLT/MLT, then that won't work. The anode must have 2 electrical paths to work. One is through the water. The other is to the element itself, which can be achieved via the shell of the vessel if the vessel is electrically conductive.
Back to top
pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bbog, your second response is what I was referring to. So thank you for your response. i don't know how I would mount such a think into a rims tube, I would have to do a lot of work.
Back to top
bbognerks




Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Wichita, KS


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a lot of work, just some extra money for fittings. Here is what I would do if I wanted to add an anode to my RIMS tube. I already have the Tee in place. I'm using a 4" RTD probe with no problems. I would cut the anode down to about 1" long, maybe 3/4" to allow for it to fit in the tube with the element. A hacksaw should handle the soft metal no problem. I have a 14" rims tube and my element just barely passes the outlet port, leaving about 1" at the end.

Back to top
pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, is a little bit of rust on the base of the heating element even really something to worry about? I have no rust on the prongs of my element but i do have some on the base. If i need to remove it what is the best way to do so?
Back to top
silverspoons




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Webster NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have very little on the base after brewing.. nothing to worry about.. i wipe of with a paper towel or use a small brass wire brush and dry off.

silverspoons
Back to top
View user's photo album (6 photos)
milldoggy




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 570
Location: Pottstown, PA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

little iron never hurt anyone, make you strong like Bull Smile
Back to top
View user's photo album (12 photos)
crush




Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
Location: Telemark, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello guys,

It's happened to me too. After doing two batches with the electric brewery. I was surprised to see the element face in the HLT has rusted. I don't leave water in the kettles. But I didn't wipe down any water off the element face, since it's behind the HX coil and difficult to get to. Is that the cause of the rust, or has it just rusted while the kettle has been used?

I could go with the magnesium anodes, but I don't think this will this stop rusting from happening when the kettle is drained, but still damp.

I'm thinking of using rust converter, which are safe for use in water tanks. This one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VACTAN-RUST-CONVERTER-AND-PRIMER-500ml-RUST-TREATMENT-/120756471478?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item1c1da586b6#ht_4073wt_687.

I'm not sure, will this work?


PS: The brewroom is bright orange, almost the same as the rust, so the other orange hints on the coil and base of the kettle are reflections from the orange walls, not rust!



101_1183 (Medium).JPG
 Description:
element face rust
 Filesize:  22.65 KB
 Viewed:  21396 Time(s)

101_1183 (Medium).JPG



_________________
...just one more.
Back to top
View user's photo album (1 photos)
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Electric Brewing All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 10, 11, 12  Next
Page 3 of 12
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Support our site by purchasing through this link. We thank you!

Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group