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Ben
Joined: 16 Dec 2010 Posts: 3 Location: Baie-Comeau
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Link Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: Filtered Water |
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Hi guys,
what about filtered water? I'm looking for a kinetico-like system to purify city water before brewing. There's a lot of iron and chlorine in water here. After filtration, of course I'll put stuff in for pH...I'm just asking myself about taste of beer with resulting water. Will the taste be different (mean lack of taste cause that type of system make almost distilled-water with very few ppm)?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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All depends on the makeup of your water now. How much iron?
Kal
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Ben
Joined: 16 Dec 2010 Posts: 3 Location: Baie-Comeau
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Link Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:48 am Post subject: Filtered water |
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Hello Kal,
I'm a bit late to answer but I was away for a while. By the way, I tried to get the chemistry of the water at home from the municipal office. Very difficult! I finally receive an email (hope you're able to read french) :
Analyses 2010 - Station Saint-Georges
Substances inorganiques
Concentration maximale (mg/L) Concentration analysée (mg/L)**
maximum analyse Turbidité THM totaux Nitrates + nitrites (en N)
Arsenic (As) 0,03 <0,002 < 0,5 UTN (eau filtrée) < 80 µg/L < 10 mg/L
Antimoine 0,01 <0,003 Janvier Janvier Janvier
1 143 <0,05
Baryum (Ba) 1 <0,02 Février Avril Avril
1,4 151 <0,05
Bore (B) 5 <0,05 Mars Juillet Juillet
1,25 252 <0,05
Cadmium (Cd) 0,01 <0,002 Avril Octobre Octobre
1,68 295 <0,05
Chrome total (Cr) 0,05 <0,01 Mai
1,64
Cuivre 1 0,05 Juin
1,33
Cyanures (CN) 0,2 <0,01 Juillet
0,96
Fluorures (F) 1,5 0,3 Août
1,64
Mercure (Hg) 0 <0,0001 Septembre
0,62
Plomb (Pb) 0,01 <0,005 Octobre
1,62
Sélénium (Se) 0,01 <0,002 Novembre
1,7
Uranium (U) 0,02 <0,01 Décembre
0,83
** échantillonnage en juillet
centre du réseau
extrémité du réseau
Nothing about iron or other salts. I will probably pay to get an analyse from a bath-poolstore or somewhere else. I was writing about iron cause water has a orange/reddish color and is coming from a lake about 5 kms from home. Here, there a lot of iron mines and other minerals. Color probably doesn't come from iron, but the difference between sink water and filtered water is impressive!
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Ben
Joined: 16 Dec 2010 Posts: 3 Location: Baie-Comeau
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Link Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: Oups! |
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Here's the file!
Description: |
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Download |
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Analyse eau St-Georges 2010.xls |
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21.5 KB |
Downloaded: |
720 Time(s) |
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Like you mentioned, this report does not help with brewing at all.
Kal
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hickster88
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Elmhurst, Illinois
Drinking: 5 on tap at the moment
Working on: Mango milkshake IPA
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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This is the analysis for Chicago water. How does it look for general brewing?
ca 110
mg 18
na 16
cl 49
s04 280
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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hickster88 wrote: | This is the analysis for Chicago water. How does it look for general brewing?
ca 110
mg 18
na 16
cl 49
s04 280 |
Are you sure that's Chicago water? You've quoted my exact numbers that I usually use for hop-forward beers (APA, AIPA, etc). The numbers are identical.
For example, see: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25411
Maybe you got mixed up and posted my numbers instead?
So it should work well for that style. Basically all the American Ale, and IPA recipes I have on the recipes page use the same, as does my american barleywine.
Not what I'd want for other styles. See my recipes for examples. YMMV.
Kal
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hickster88
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Elmhurst, Illinois
Drinking: 5 on tap at the moment
Working on: Mango milkshake IPA
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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My ****** up. Sorry
ca 32
mg 11.5
na 7.3
cl 14
s04 250
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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So it really depends on what sorts of beers you want to make and what salts you want to end up with. Everyone has their own opinions.
Take a look at some of the salt profiles I provide in my recipes and then plug your numbers into EZ Water Calculator and see if you can come up with similar numbers.
You may be able to make sure styles to the numbers I like, but not others.
At first glace my concern is that your S04 is much high than everything else so lighter lagers may not work out well. You may be able to hit the same numbers I like by only using CaCl2.
Kal
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hickster88
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Elmhurst, Illinois
Drinking: 5 on tap at the moment
Working on: Mango milkshake IPA
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Would it be easier to just use reverse osmosis water and then add salts?
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Ben58
Joined: 14 Aug 2011 Posts: 409 Location: Hamilton, Ontario
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Just installed an RO system this past weekend. Getting myself set-up for a brew day with my friend who owns Black Oak Brewing and his brewmaster. They are amazed with the Kal clone I built!
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Possibly. That's up to you. You can also dilute with RO water.
Also depends on the targets you want to get to. In some case it won't be "difficult" but actually "impossible" to use tap water and get certain profiles.
RO water filters waste a TON of water. I treat them like a last resort if you can't use salts.
KAl
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hickster88
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Elmhurst, Illinois
Drinking: 5 on tap at the moment
Working on: Mango milkshake IPA
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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So do you feel I can get close to your numbers for basic apa and ipas?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have no idea.
Take a look at some of the salt profiles I provide in my recipes and then plug your numbers into EZ Water Calculator and see if you can come up with similar numbers.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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hickster88
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Elmhurst, Illinois
Drinking: 5 on tap at the moment
Working on: Mango milkshake IPA
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ok lets say I added a gallon of my water and a gallon of RO water. Would my chemical water makeup be half of the original quantities?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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hickster88
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Elmhurst, Illinois
Drinking: 5 on tap at the moment
Working on: Mango milkshake IPA
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Pink Brewing leggings? Just saw that. Good one.
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hickster88
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Elmhurst, Illinois
Drinking: 5 on tap at the moment
Working on: Mango milkshake IPA
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I just got my results back from Ward Labs and it changes quite a bit compared to my most recent Chicago report from August 2011. After my additions and calculations from EZ water calculator I can get my levels to this. And using all Chicago water no dilutions.
ca 110
mg 17
na 16
cl 48
so4 180
Keep in mind I'm shooting for Kals pale ale numbers. Pretty close but do I need to worry about so4 being too low?
Thanks, John
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11123 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't worry about it. That'll make a very tasty american style pale ale (IMHO).
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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hickster88
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Elmhurst, Illinois
Drinking: 5 on tap at the moment
Working on: Mango milkshake IPA
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Link Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Kal Your The Best.
John
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