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Calculating Brewing Salts, Specifically NaCl

 
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Tiny




Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 25
Location: Newaygo, MI

Drinking: Simcoe IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:45 pm    Post subject: Calculating Brewing Salts, Specifically NaCl Reply with quote


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Hello Kal

I built and have been using your brewery design for a few years now, and have not worried about water adjustments. All in all my results have been fairly decent.

I'd like to brew your Electric Creamsicle and try to adjust my water as close to your recipe as I can.

Hoppy NE Flavor Profile: Ca-100, Mg-18, Cl-200, SO4-100


My water profile according to Ward Labs : Ca-50.9, Mg-21, Na-4, Cl-4, SO4-15


Working with EZ Water Calculator Spreadsheet 3.0

I have entered my water profile, and Mash water 12.375 gal, Sparge 17.8 gal


When looking at the following Salt additions:

CaSo4 - 12g, CaCl2 - 0g, MgSO4- 1g

I end up with

Ca-109, Mg-23, Na-4, Cl-4, SO4-166



I'm assuming that adding NaCl would bring the Sodium and Chloride up, but don't know how to calculate how much.

Also, do you think the Mg is too high? Getting SO4 up to 200 seems to be difficult without blowing the other numbers out of the water.

Do you have any Suggestions?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10932
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Calculating Brewing Salts, Specifically NaCl Reply with quote

Hi!

Tiny wrote:

Hoppy NE Flavor Profile: Ca-100, Mg-18, Cl-200, SO4-100
My water profile according to Ward Labs : Ca-50.9, Mg-21, Na-4, Cl-4, SO4-15

You've got great soft (low in minerals) water so that's a good start! You can always add, but taking away is much more difficult.

Quote:
When looking at the following Salt additions:

CaSo4 - 12g, CaCl2 - 0g, MgSO4- 1g

I end up with

Ca-109, Mg-23, Na-4, Cl-4, SO4-166

I'm assuming that adding NaCl would bring the Sodium and Chloride up, but don't know how to calculate how much.

I wouldn't use it - I have yet to use NaCl. Nothing wrong with Na of 4 as lower is better per my water adjustment guide, but if you want to bring it up use some Baking Soda (NaHCO3) which is in the spreadsheet.

I would instead add some CaCl2 to bring up the Cl level and lower CaSO4 and MgSO4. You have to play around a bit and try and get close, and don't worry if you can't hit the numbers bang on as it won't matter. Get Ca to around 100, Cl to around 200 and SO4 to around 100. If you're over or under by 20-30 that's ok. Your Ca will probably be higher than that and that's ok. If you want to get closer, you can maybe try cutting part of your water with distilled/RO water (all zeros) and see if that help at all. There's an option to cut with distilled/RO at the top of the spreadsheet.

Quote:
Also, do you think the Mg is too high?

Your value of 23 is very close to 18. Won't make a difference. Typical brewing range for Mg in water is 5-40, so you're fine. You get a lot of it from grain too so I purposely set the Mg numbers lower in my targets as you know the grian will add a ton more. In fact, it's not uncommon for the finished beer to have Mg well above 100 ppm. Julius is said (for example) to be 185! Source:
https://thirdleapbrew.com/technical/ward-labs-mineral-analysis-of-tree-house-julius/

I would go higher with Ca (as high as 150), not worry too much about bringing Mg up even farther, to get Cl:S04 to around 100:200 200:100 (fixed my typo).

See my water adjustment guide for some some hints too. This one here is especially true:

Quote:
If you cannot hit the targets exactly, do not fret. The numbers are not absolutes. Keep in mind the original goal of the profile you are targeting. In this case the goal of this 'Balanced' profile is to "Hit minimums on Ca and Mg, keep the Cl:SO4 ratio low and equal". This means we prefer to reach 50 for Calcium and 10 for Magnesium, but a Calcium at 60 or even 70 is fine, as is Magnesium at 12 or 15. Keeping Chloride and Sulphate low and equal means that both at 50, 60, or even 80 is fine.

Like all things brewing, feel free to experiment too and see if you like it / if you find it makes a difference. I brewed my Electric Hop Candy 3-4 time using identical recipe/process only changing the water numbers (quite a bit usually) to see what liked/didn't like before landing on the numbers you posted here. There's no right or wrong answer.

Good luck!

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tiny




Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 25
Location: Newaygo, MI

Drinking: Simcoe IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, thank you for the help Kal.

I really appreciate it.

I'll give it a try, bet it will be awesome. I'm pretty sure it will all get consumed, either way.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10932
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enjoy your brew day and let us know how you like it!

Electric Creamsicle is pretty much permanently on tap here now. Exactly the sort of flavours I like and is refreshing / not too high in the ABV department so you can have more than one. Wink

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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Tiny




Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 25
Location: Newaygo, MI

Drinking: Simcoe IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

First off thank you for all the help, this forum and your Recipes have been the major reason my brewing has been so successful among friends and family.

I brewed this last weekend and everything went perfectly on brew day. She is fermenting nicely.


I am getting ready to brew your Electric Hop Candy NEIPA this coming weekend and noticed something with the water adjustments, being last week's and this week's brews use the same water profile.




Quote:
I would go higher with Ca (as high as 150), not worry too much about bringing Mg up even farther, to get Cl:S04 to around 100:200.

I plugged your numbers into EZWater and get: Ca-149, Mg-35, Na-19, Cl-97, SO4-186
Using: CaSO4-9.5g, CaCl2-9g, MgSO4-7g, NaHCO3-2.5g (take or leave this last one).






I used those recommended numbers, but I think I messed up according to your Hoppy New England flavor profile. Instead of Cl:SO4 being 100:200, I should have had it reversed 200:100. Unless you recommended those numbers on purpose?

This is the first time I used brewing salts, it'll be interesting how things come out.

I am assuming it will be just fine.

Again thank you for all your help.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10932
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops! You're absolutely right!

Cl:SO4 should be 200:100 and not 100:200 for my "Hoppy New England" flavour profile. I got that backwards. Sorry about that!

My recipes and water adjustment article are correct - it's explained here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/water-adjustment#STEP_1_Choose_a_flavour_profile

I fixed my first post above (that you quoted), but erased the part on how I got there (how much to add) using EZWater as I don't have time to go through all this again right now... I'll leave that exercise to you! Wink Don't use my recommended amounts.

The beer will be fine either way, just different.

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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Tiny




Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 25
Location: Newaygo, MI

Drinking: Simcoe IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries Kal, I should have caught it. I bet it tastes great.

Just gives me a good excuse to brew it again.

Thank you and enjoy the rest of the week.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10932
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers! You too!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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