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Control Panel Wiring: Heat Build-Up

 
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RiverBottomCraftB




Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 39
Location: Chula Vista


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:20 pm    Post subject: Control Panel Wiring: Heat Build-Up Reply with quote


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Question: I read the FAQ section and understand some of the reasons why heat may build-up and melt wires, but is it normal for wiring to build-up heat inside the control panel? If so, what is an acceptable amount?

Here is my situation: I built your 50amp 30 gallon plus system with two 5500w elements which is awesome (thank you!), but I did have a 10g wire melt/breaker popped from the BOIL CONTACTOR POLE TO THE BREAKER. I believe it was a loose connection.

After that occurred, I started to monitor the temperature of the wiring inside the panel with a laser heat thermometer. I noticed that 99% of the wiring stayed at ambient temp throughout the panel, but there were two areas where I noticed that heat was building up:

1. From the POWER-IN receptacle to the POWER-IN CONTACTOR. It went from ambient 95f to about 130f, seeing the biggest increase on the HOT side. Specifically at the connection point between the 6g wire and the contactor. (I triple checked and all connections where proper and tight). Is this normal?

2. From the HTL or BOIL CONTACTOR (depending which one was running) to the 30a FUSE. Specifically at the starting point of the fuse. It went from ambient (about 95f - it was a hot day in the garage) to about 170f with the element running 100% of the time. I did notice that at the exit point of the fuse the temp dropped back to the about 105f.

This was the case for ALL separate 8 fuses when they were firing, they heated up to about 170f when firing 100% of the time for 20-25 minutes. I don't think it's loose connections as it is happening at all starting points of the fuse.

I googled searched but it just left me more confused. THANK YOU for any insight!!



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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Control Panel Wiring: Heat Build-Up Reply with quote

Hi!

RiverBottomCraftB wrote:
Question: I read the FAQ section and understand some of the reasons why heat may build-up and melt wires, but is it normal for wiring to build-up heat inside the control panel? If so, what is an acceptable amount?

All electronics will generate some heat. Parts and wires used must be chosen carefully to ensure that the heat generated is within specifications. There is no one answer as to what's acceptable I'm afraid as it depends on the parts/wires. More on this below. Built per our instructions (or purchase our control panel kit, pre-assembled control panel, or individual control panel parts) and the parts will have all have been chosen carefully to work correctly, within specification in any brewing environment including hot brew houses. We have some commercial brewers using our panels 2-3 times/day, 7 days/week, for years.

Quote:
Here is my situation: I built your 50amp 30 gallon plus system with two 5500w elements which is awesome (thank you!), but I did have a 10g wire melt/breaker popped from the BOIL CONTACTOR POLE TO THE BREAKER. I believe it was a loose connection.

A loose connection is definitely the most common reason we see for those who build their own. Make sure as well that you didn't by accident cause any of the other issues mentioned here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/control-panel-troubleshooting#A_wire_or_part_in_my_control_panel_looks_like_its_burnt_or_melting

For example, if stripping stranded copper wire someone could easily cut a bit too deep and cut off some of the strands which reduces the gauge. Depending how much you reduce the gauge that can also cause issues as the current needs to flow through a smaller area affectively creating more heat.

It could also be incorrectly chosen parts if sourcing your own, or incorrectly installed parts if using our kits and/or sourcing your own parts. I only mention this as I believe you sourced most of your parts on your own based on your email and past orders.

Quote:
After that occurred, I started to monitor the temperature of the wiring inside the panel with a laser heat thermometer. I noticed that 99% of the wiring stayed at ambient temp throughout the panel, but there were two areas where I noticed that heat was building up:

Most T90, THWN, or THHN copper wire (the stuff we recommend in the instructions and use in our kits & pre-assembled panels) is rated to at least that. For example, the name T90 comes from the fact that it's rated to 90 degrees Celsius / 194F (dry). Check the specs of the wire you purchased to confirm. Ampacity also drops as the temperature goes up, but the sizing in the instructions is chosen to be correct even at higher temps.

If you need wire, we sell it here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/wiring

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers!

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any questions RiverBottomCraftB? Have you figured things out? Just want to make sure you get the support you need. Cheers!

Kal

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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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RiverBottomCraftB




Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 39
Location: Chula Vista


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal. I haven't brewed since my post so I don't have any new data/observations to add.

I understand your your answer and logic to my question but I'm still perplexed about the fact that I only really see heat build-up at the fuse (entry point of the fuse not the exit). And this is for all the fuses when they are active. At every other point of the system there is no real heat build-up. I'm confident that the connections are good and the products are quality. Have you or anyone else measured heat (probably not right- why would you the engineering is correct)

I tried running my set-up with only one 5500w element running, but I see the same thing (heat build-up at the two fuses where the element is running).

I think my next move, if I make any moves, is to go from 5500w elements to 4500w. It makes me nervous that I'm reaching 160-170f temps and the wire is rated at 190f. Should I not be nervous??? What do you think?

Thanks again!
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as the temp is within spec for the product/wiring you're using it's all good. Fuses (and therefore fuse holders) will run hotter than just straight wire. Use correct parts for the application and make proper connections and all will be good. It's not something we've actively measured as you mentioned.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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