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Electric Hop Candy (New England IPA / NEIPA)
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225




Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 99
Location: Asheville, NC.


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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The 10 gallons I brewed are gone.
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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 69



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Great! Let us know how the final keg is once kegged and carb'ed up.

Kal
Ok, here is my opinion. Even though the final gravity is in range, kveik Voss tastes too dry to me for the style. It's certainly good enough to drink and enjoy, but it lacks the mild sweet and I guess the fruity ketones form London III. The kveik Voss works great for the Electric Pale Ale, but not so good here. I wanted to use the kveik Hornindal because it sounded much more like the London III. It was unavailable at the time and doesn't have a dry yeast version, though.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11002
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the follow up!

I would agree - Having a beer finish too dry is typically not what you want for for a New England style.

Kal

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JSB




Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 116
Location: NE Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The beer came out great.... brew day was a long day though!

Does anyone have a 'logo' for this beer? I have 3d printed tap handles, where I can slide in a cropped index card.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11002
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad it worked out JSB!

Kal

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thedudebill




Joined: 18 Feb 2021
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:03 pm    Post subject: Losing NEIPA Mojo Reply with quote

New to the forum so could easily screw this up, and may have missed earlier posts where this is already covered, but here goes: I noticed that this beer was at its absolute flavor peak right after it carbbed up (so 2-3 days after kegging at about 30 psi and giving each keg a good shake each day until it got to where I liked it). The first pours on Wednesday were out of this world. I'd split the batch in two, half with London Ale III, the other half with some Conan yeast cultured from a bottle of Heady Topper and stepped up with a starter. Each was magnificent. Thursday it was still great. But even by Friday night (last night) I'd noticed a distinct drop off, particularly in the Conan batch. It was a still a good beer, but was much more like a standard American IPA. The aroma was subdued, barely a whiff of the stone fruit esters or the other distinctive Heady-like notes. As those flavors and aromas receded, the bitterness came out more and the finish was drier. Whereas on Wednesday night the beer could easily have passed for Heady or Focal Banger, by Friday night it was nothing like that. Even the London Ale III had lost some of its sparkle, but not nearly as much.

I thought perhaps it had gotten too cold (but never got below 36 degrees) or too fizzy (had set the regulator at 10 psi and kept it there). But now I am wondering if the issue is simply from the gradual settling of yeast / hop oils toward the bottom of the keg over time. Any thoughts? Could you resurrect the beer's former liveliness by giving the kegs a little shake? Or will that just screw up something else?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11002
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi and welcome to the forum!

If you make hop forward beers like this and you find the the flavour changes fast, my first guess would be poor handling/oxygen exposure. Are you careful with O2 exposure after the fermentation is starting to settle down? Purging your kegs or any target vessel before filling? That said, having it change a lot from one day to the next is incredibly fast. Normally even the most mishandled beer won't oxidize that fast. I be it's something else.

Hop oils won't settle out in the keg. If you got yeast or other sludge into the keg, that will settle out and may come out in the pour causing different the flavours you're seeing. That is true of any beer however if you allow stuff to get into the keg and it settles out, which can end up in the glass.
Given how fast it's happening my guess is that it's junk settling out which is now causing more of it to come out in pours than before. That's my guess since this happened over 2-3 days which is really fast.

You can certainly give it a shake. It won't mess up anything other than stir up anything that settled out, though there shouldn't be anything that settled out that you actually want in the beer here.

Note that these issues do not really have anything to do with this specific beer or recipe, so you won't find other talking about this specific problem in this thread even if you searched. I'm fairly certain your issues are process related. It's not recipe related. Unfortunately it's nearly impossible to pinpoint the issue as I don't know what you may be doing differently from what I'd recommend in my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP or FERMENTING/PACKAGING/SERVING guides. Maybe you can tell us a bit more about your process from end of brew day until serving? What you did exactly in terms of chilling, dry hopping, packaging, etc?

Would this happen to be one of the first beers you've kegged? Are you new to brewing? That'll give us more context too.

Cheers!

Kal

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thedudebill




Joined: 18 Feb 2021
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal. I can definitely provide some more notes on my process, but it's funny you mention O2 exposure. That would have been my guess as well but I believe I have minimized that risk with some recent improvements in my fermenting and kegging. Here's what I did:

- I followed your brew day step by step religiously.

- I fermented in Ss unitanks.

- I added the first dry hops 24 hours post commencement of active fermentation.

- I did not rack to a brite tank or secondary before the second dry hops, which I added when fermentation was nearly done. I dumped some trub before the second addition, adding some CO2 to compensate for the volume loss.

- The day before kegging, I cold crashed to 35 degrees.

- Prior to kegging, I filled each sanke keg to the brim with a Star San solution, and then pushed it all out with CO2 -- so I have to imagine the kegs were largely purged of any ambient O2.

- I kegged via pressurized CO2 transfer; I hooked a blow off tube to the gas line of the sanke coupler and bubbled the escaping CO2 from the filling keg through sanitizer to minimize the risk of any air / O2 flowing back into the keg.

- Final step was to hook the couplers to the CO2 regulator and crank to 30 psi for 2-3 days.

It's possible the dry hop additions introduced O2, but I would have thought that would have been de minimis. The hops were fresh out of foil packets and presumably there was a layer of CO2 in the headspace above the krausen when I had the unitank open briefly to add the hops. I actually even had the CO2 blowing in through the blowoff cane at very low psi as a further (perhaps unnecessary step) to bolster my O2 defenses during the hop additions.

I have been kegging my beer for 10+ years though this was the first time I used sanke kegs, which I did on the recommendation of a friend (who also uses The Electric Brewery) who said they're less likely to clog than ball-lock kegs when transferring a heavily dry-hopped NEIPA under pressure. I have been using your system for just under a year and I have consistently been making the best beer of my life -- each batch seems better than the previous, as I get the hang of your brilliant system.

So there's the background. Any thoughts? I should also say I could be my own harshest critic here. I just poured a pint. It's still delicious. I just feel it's already lost some luster and complexity. It hasn't gone from amazing to stale or anything like that. I should still be very pleased and I am. I just want to make it even better next time.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11002
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedudebill wrote:
Thanks Kal. I can definitely provide some more notes on my process, but it's funny you mention O2 exposure. That would have been my guess as well but I believe I have minimized that risk with some recent improvements in my fermenting and kegging.

I don't think that's the issue given how "fast" you noticed a flavour change. I think it's something else. Though that said, how do you ensure you limit O2 exposure when you cold crash to 35F? When you crash that low the liquid (beer) contracts and atmosphere is sucked in. I never lower temp myself unless I'm under CO2 pressure (i.e. already in the kegs). Maybe you did something similar. Again, I don't think that was the issue, just offering suggestions on general process improvement if that makes sense.

thedudebill wrote:
It's possible the dry hop additions introduced O2, but I would have thought that would have been de minimis. The hops were fresh out of foil packets and presumably there was a layer of CO2 in the headspace above the krausen when I had the unitank open briefly to add the hops. I actually even had the CO2 blowing in through the blowoff cane at very low psi as a further (perhaps unnecessary step) to bolster my O2 defenses during the hop additions.

Dry hopping can add O2 but sounds like you're taking precaution.

Best to flush hops with CO2 first (that's what I do) even if it's just pumping CO2 into a long flask with the hops in it or similar before dumping as the various folds and crevices in hops can hold O2. Some people will use drop butterfly valves or similar where they flush first but I think that's a bit over the top. You can make excellent beer without going to that extreme. That small amount of O2 also isn't going to make a beer go from great to questionable in 2-3 days as you've previously mentioned.

Nothing else in what you posted stands out as odd. It sounds like you've done your homework and doing everything right!

Cheers!

Kal

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thedudebill




Joined: 18 Feb 2021
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again, Kal. As always, I appreciate and admire your willingness to dive in and get to the bottom of an issue.

Re: the cold crashing, yes I do that with low (e.g. 0.5 - 1psi) pressurizing of the headspace above the beer in the unitank to counterbalance the vacuum effect created by the cooling.

I will definitely flush the hops with CO2 next time before adding them to the fermenter.

Had a friend over last night who raved about each version of this beer I have on tap as well as the Electric IPA in the "reserve" kegerator. Which reminds me my process was different for that one. I had racked to a 5 gallon carboy after dry hopping. I was a bit overzealous in retrospect -- I racked the beer almost all the way up the neck of the carboy -- to minimize O2 of course! -- and then found the beer was still fermenting so much that it was gumming up the airlock multiple times a day. This continued for more than 24 hours, at which point I grew tired of repeatedly removing the airlock to clean, sanitize and re-install it. I threw in the towel and swapped out the airlock for a blow-off house, all the while cursing that my shortsighted efforts to minimize O2 may have backfired. I let it sit in the carboy like that for 2 weeks (after 1 week in the primary) and then used a siphon to rack to a corny keg that I'd half-heartedly purged with CO2. And yet despite those procedural bumps in the road, the beer is stunning and has all the desired complexities and notes characteristic of the style.

So who knows what happened with the NEIPA? Could be mostly in my head. I am just going to keep brewing and try not to forget Papazian's old mantra.

Thanks again,
Bill
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11002
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely RDWHAHB! It's a good mantra. Often people forget that beer will not be ruined by (small) hiccups.

Happy brewing Bill!

Kal

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