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thermal load/boil off rate/wort damage

 
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stickyfinger




Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 176
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:35 pm    Post subject: thermal load/boil off rate/wort damage Reply with quote


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Hey, I have been reading a couple of threads on HBT about thermal load/boil off rate, etc. Some people are claiming the goal is to get the boil off rate down to a very low number, like 5% or something. Has anyone taken their boil off rate down and noticed any beer improvement? I'm getting like 1.5-1.7 gal/hr on my setup most of the time. I adjust the boil PID between like 70 and 85% for 6-17 gallon batches.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10804
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Wit, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally reducing the boil off rate is to lessen how much moisture goes into the air for those who do not have adequate exhaust setups. It does nothing to improve the beer.

I do 1.9 gallons/hour boil off rate as I like to boil hard. If anything I notice better / more stable (long term stability) with beer the harder I boil. YMMV, choose what works for you.

More info: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ventilation


Kal

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stickyfinger




Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 176
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you have no concerns about damaging your wort with excessive heat i guess. Smile
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10804
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Wit, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope. I don't even think that's a thing. Wink
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701pilot




Joined: 10 May 2016
Posts: 48
Location: northern california

Drinking: Bohemian Pilsner,Caribou Slobber, Munich Helles, Weissbier, Black Bute Porter, RIS, Irish Red Ale

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PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the point of the boil was to reduce the amount of liquid in the wort to the appropriate percentage of sugar. If you lower the boil off rate you will need to boil longer. I'm with Kal, crank it up and let er buck.
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Mark

I can't change the laws of physics but with enough horse power I can chase it into submission.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10804
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Wit, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

701pilot wrote:
I thought the point of the boil was to reduce the amount of liquid in the wort to the appropriate percentage of sugar.

No, that's just a side effect (edit: at least on most systems - if your mash tun isn't big enough then some will boil longer to get the gravity up as they're limited to how much grain they can mash). The boil is normally used to maximize alpha acid extraction from the hops, drive off unwanted volatile compounds, and coagulate unwanted proteins. The wort pH will also drop slightly during the boil which will help with long term stability. pH will drop further when you ferment. If the beer has too high of a pH it will be more prone to infection and long term stability will be reduced. Often, the pH of the final beer describes how “lively” a beer is.

Quote:
If you lower the boil off rate you will need to boil longer.

Not necessarily. If your boil off rate is lower you simply collect less wort to begin with (i.e. use less sparge water). I will anywhere from 60 - 90 minutes for most beers, and sometimes as long as 2-3 hours if the goal is extra caramelization ( like a barleywine: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/american-barleywine ).
For beers I boil longer I simply collect more in the boil kettle.

More in my brew day step by step: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/brew-day-step-by-step

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stickyfinger




Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 176
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is one of the threads on HBT about boil vigor:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/thoughts-on-boil-off-rate.674162/
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10804
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Wit, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's certainly been a movement by some to a lower 'simmer' instead of boil. I suggest you experiment and try different ways and see what works best for you. That's one of the benefits of this design: The choice is yours as to how hard (or soft) you want to boil.

Kal

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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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stickyfinger




Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 176
Location: hudson valley, NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i'm thinking about trying it to see if i can tell any difference.
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KB




Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 272
Location: Virginia

Working on: Next brew


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the boil goal was a nice rolling boil and not a crazy type of boil. Once I get a protein break I set the BK PID to 75%. I've been happy with the results.
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