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Fusel alcohols when making cream ale?

 
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Brianbrian88



Joined: 04 Jul 2020
Posts: 10
Location: Estevan sk


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:58 pm    Post subject: Fusel alcohols when making cream ale? Reply with quote


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I made a 17 gallon batch of this (Cream Ale - see https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/cream-ale-standard-lager) the other month and I have had several people complain about bad hangovers, heartburn, headaches. They have not had issues with any of my other beers. I used dextrose instead of table sugar and us05 with a starter. The biggest difference I noticed was I had a crazy blowoff and lost alot of yeast, I then had a very slow fermentation. I reached my 1.006 fg, I have the ingredients to make another 26 gal batch with my bigger fermenter so I'll have to headspace to prevent any blowoff. Do you think my issue was I lost to much yeast and they got stressed and made fusel alcohols or something? I dont normally use simple sugars in my beers so the dextrose and yeast blowoff are the only things different I can pick out. I had a bit low of a mash ph 5.17 at room temperature, but I've had low ph before without any issues. I'm debating throwing in 10% rice instead of the simple sugars for my next batch, or do you think I will be safe as long as I dont lose a large percent of my yeast due to blow off? Or should I add sugars after fermentation?

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Brian allerton
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brian,

Sounds like a classic case of fusel alcohols from fermenting at too high a temperature at a too low pH. What was your wort temp during fermentation?

Kal

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Brianbrian88



Joined: 04 Jul 2020
Posts: 10
Location: Estevan sk


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fermentation was between 65-66 for 2 weeks untill last 3 days of ferment then I spunded at 15 psi and 68 f f. I've had that low of mash ph before without anything like this
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Brian allerton
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brian,

65-66F isn't high at all.

I'm afraid I don't know what the issue is/was given the information provided. There's something in the process you used that caused this. Given that it can't be an issue with the recipe, I suggest you start another thread with more details on what you did (as this'll get get more eyeballs on it than posting in the recipe thread). Maybe something will stick out for those reading. Good luck!

Kal

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Brianbrian88



Joined: 04 Jul 2020
Posts: 10
Location: Estevan sk


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would a lack of fermenter headspace and a blowoff that blows out most of the yeast cause the remaining yeast to be stressed because they have to work 10x harder? Hence the fermentation take at least 2x to 3x longer than usual.
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Brian allerton
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly, but I find it unlikely as there's usually there's a ton of yeast in solution by the time krausen gets to the point where it's blowing out the blow-off tube.

Kal

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McGruber



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 237
Location: Idaho


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Brian. Just out of curiosity, what are you using for fermenters, and how are you temperature controlling them? You probably know this, but the inside middle of a 17 gallon fermenter isn't 65' when the room is that temp. If you have a crazy amount of blowoff then unless you have zero headspace, your fermenter might be getting too hot internally and you could be losing a bunch of yeast that would normally fall back into solution and keep fermenting your beer. In my 68'F room I once measured the inside of a 14 gallon stainless conical fermenter (11 gal batch - using a thermowell) at almost 90'F. This might account for your yeast loss, high fermentation temps and fusel alcohols.
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Brianbrian88



Joined: 04 Jul 2020
Posts: 10
Location: Estevan sk


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using the spike cf15 with the temperature control bundle and taking my readings with there temp controller in the stainless thermowell and using my home made glycol chiller set to 50-60 f. I've made similar beers many many times just without corn sugar, that's why I'm so stumped. I dont feel as though my process has changed. I'm going to make my last attempt today at this recipe to use up my hops. But I'm making a 26 gal bath in my 1 bbl spike conical this time. Headspace wont be a problem this time.
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Brian allerton
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10680
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topic split into new thread.

Kal

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