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Stock Tank Hot Tub

 
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berzai@sbcglobal.net



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 2:07 am    Post subject: Stock Tank Hot Tub Reply with quote


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This site is my favorite. The most ecletic grouping of smart and passionate people from all fields, walks of life, and interests. I haven't been here in a while, the brewery has been down unfortunately due to a move. I aquired a barn. Got a 220 line in. Beautiful. First brew next week and can't wait.

This is off topic so here we go. I recently did a swap. Kitchen cabinet doors I made for a stock tank hot tub. Well, just the stock tank. It's 300-400 gallons depending on how high I fill it. I made this contraption to test how much power I would need, how much time I would need to heat it.. (hopefully the jpg uploads) https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zd4Dq3sfrzFM1LGi8

No people in the tub. I just wanted to see how much juice I would need. Bullet points..

1. I have a march pump, real basic one.

2. (2) 2000 watt 120v heating elements run through the 1 1/4" pipe. Water comes out very hot when pump is full open.

3. Takes around 4-5 hours to heat tub to 104, again depending on outside temp.

4. I need to make this safe

I have 2 seperate 20 amp circuits running the elements. The are both outdoor gfi outlets. Each element has it's own plug that goes into each seperate outlet. I would love to run more power out there, but, lets rule that out, really location wise and $$, infeasible, so I'm stuck with these 2.

I need to make this safe and tie it to a pid. Right now I have each element tied to a standard 20 amp switch, hit the switch, bam, full power. The pump just plugs in. It's full blast until I turn it off.

Goals.

Budget 300 hundred, If I need more, I could aquire, but, honestly I'm hoping for this range.

I would like 1 switch that runs everything.

I would like a pid that turns that elements on and off based on temp. ( I have unlimited solar, so really don't care)

The ssr and relays are really the way to go, but, without some guidance, it would take me a year to plan out. Plus you guys would do it much better anyway...

So boom, I could buy a hot tub pump and buy everything stock... but, where is the fun in that. I want to build the thing that heats my tub. I did it, but, now, I need some help to make it safe. Anyone with a little to much time, and way too much knowledge to share would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!! And Kal, keep up the good work, legit, this forum is the best.

I'm going to build a box around this, well vented, that matches my house. Anyways, there you go... Any ideas? Thank you in advance.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10610
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting project!

Off the top of my head, you need a few things to make this safe, things that all commercial hot tubs have to do:

(1) GFCI protection and grounded.

(2) The heated water going in to the hot tub can't be scorching (i.e. you should be able to put your foot up agains the output and not burn yourself). Our hot tub's about the same volume as yours and uses a 5500W element. You can put your foot up against the output and not burn yourself. The water's only very warm. The flow rate is very very low.

(3) Limit the max temp you can set it to. There are rules/regulations around this for commercial hot tubs. Around here 104F is the maximum you can set it to. With special keystrokes you can override temporarily to 106F if you like.

(4) Suction has to be controlled in such a manner to not cause harm or drowning by trapping. (This is actually a US law - see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Graeme_Baker_Pool_and_Spa_Safety_Act)

(5) I know around here there are laws around access to pools and hot tubs so make sure to ask. Where I live you don't need to have a fence if you have a hot tub as long as the cover can be (and is) locked when not in use. If you don't have a locking cover you may need a fence. You may also need a permit for this.


As to how to actually implement something I'd make sure that whatever you use is completely waterproof, especially the PID and whatever control electronics you use.

Good luck!

Kal

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berzai@sbcglobal.net



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im selling out and not re-inventing the wheel. I'm going to basically make a HLT with the 120 v elements. I think seperating the hot tub water from the elements will increase their lifespan. Heating the HLT to a desired temp and using the designed coil/heat transfer system would be the way to go. I was too cheap and didn't want to bit the bullet. I might have some questions though about the control panel.

I would like to setup the SSR and relay system. I just want to make sure I get the correct parts based on these elements. When I'm finished, I'll post what I did...Not going to lie, the stock tank tub is awesome. 3 IPAs on a 50 degree day during sunset last night was pretty much the pinnacle...

I need a PID that runs 2 SSRs? Which SSR/PID combo would you reccomend. One for each element? Would I need 2 seperate relays the power the SSRs to protect from any residual current/voltage? Could I get one basic 120v switch to power on the relays?
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berzai@sbcglobal.net



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0772QWR4C/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkId=b65d9c62bad3e269b634c6b236eb5be5&language=en_US

What about 2 of these to replace the whole ssr, relay combo? They should be able to handle the elemnts correct. It would definitely make for an easier build...
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10610
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

berzai@sbcglobal.net wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0772QWR4C/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkId=b65d9c62bad3e269b634c6b236eb5be5&language=en_US

What about 2 of these to replace the whole ssr, relay combo? They should be able to handle the elemnts correct. It would definitely make for an easier build...

Not idea as the information they provide sucks. Can't tell if it's a mech relay vs SSR. I'd recommend SSR for longevity. Nothing about it (or the probe) is waterproof either. Generally speaking you get what you pay for. These things, with probe is about $10. That should give you an indication of the quality.

berzai@sbcglobal.net wrote:
I need a PID that runs 2 SSRs? Which SSR/PID combo would you reccomend. One for each element? Would I need 2 seperate relays the power the SSRs to protect from any residual current/voltage? Could I get one basic 120v switch to power on the relays?

You don't need one PID/SSR per element. You can run as many elements as you like off a single PID/SSR combo as long as you meet power requirements. That's how our 50A control panel for 30+ gallons works (one PID/SSR can drive up to two heating elements that you plug into the control panel, usually either one or two 5500W elements [max]).

This PID: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/temperature-controllers/products/syl-2352-pid-temperature-controller
Drives this SSR: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/ssrs-relays-contactors/products/80-amp-ssr-12v-dc-input-240v-ac-output
Which drives up to 2 x 5500W elements: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/heating-elements

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10610
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

berzai@sbcglobal.net wrote:
I need a PID that runs 2 SSRs? Which SSR/PID combo would you reccomend. One for each element? Would I need 2 seperate relays the power the SSRs to protect from any residual current/voltage? Could I get one basic 120v switch to power on the relays?

Reading this again I'm a bit uncomfortable helping out with this given the very important safety aspects that should be adhered to given that you're basically wanting to build a bathtub heated by electricity. That in itself has lots of inherent safety issues that really need to be done correctly with the right safeguards in place. No offence but some of your questions here are really basic so it stands to reason that you also wouldn't know how to do this in the safest possible manner. If there's anything that should be wired to safety standards like UL / CSA / CE it's the inner workings of a hottub. This wiring isn't just about choosing parts that work together but how the wiring is physically done, in what sort of casing, and so forth, all to minimize catastrophe (i.e. death) in case something comes loose, gets chewed through by a rodent, and so forth. I highly suggest you don't proceed with this project. Heating with wood fire or similar would be considerably safer. Lots of hottub plans out there for doing that. Good luck!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Thu May 07, 2020 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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berzai@sbcglobal.net



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,

Thank you for the response. All makes sense. Much appreciate the warnings and possible issues. Looking into other options.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10610
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem - stay safe!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
225



Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 98
Location: Asheville, NC.

Drinking: NEIPA

Working on: Bohemian Pils


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm excited about this too.

I plan on getting a stock tank pool when we buy next year.
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