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dnierer
Joined: 22 Jul 2013 Posts: 38 Location: Slatington, PA
Drinking: Electric Hop Candy
Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:00 pm Post subject: Yeast Pitch Rate - Pliny the Younger |
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When I ran this through brewers friend 52 grams of yeast gives me the following
OG: 1.088
Wort Volume: 12 Gallons
Target Pitch Rate: Pro Brewer 1.0
Yeast Type: Dry Packets
Dry Yeast Amount: 52 grams
Cell Density: 7 billion cells per gram
The results are
Cells available: 364 billion
Pitch Rate As-Is: 0.38 cells / mL / P
Target Pitch Rate Cells: 960 billion
Difference: -596 billion
Should I be selecting a different Target Pitch Rate than Pro Brewer 1.0?
Thanks,
Dru
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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You raise an interesting point as I don't use their calculator for dry yeast as I find it wants an absolutely insane amount of yeast. In the case of this Pliny the Younger recipe which uses US-05 which the calculator says is rumoured to have a cell density of 6B cells/gram, at a Pro Brewer 1.0 pitch rate for 12 gallons of 1.088 wort you're looking at 160 grams! (more than 14 packs). I recommend 52 grams.
So my dry yeast recommendations in my recipes are simply from my own experience. In the case of this beer 52g in 12 gallons has always given me quick starts and and the expected attenuation. Some will even say that 52 grams is overkill!
I've update my yeast starter guide to mention that I only use the calculator for liquid yeast and that I recommend sticking to the recommended amount of grams when dry yeasts are called for. See the new 'warning' section in red after the intro : https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/making-a-yeast-starter
My recipes that use dry yeasts (I only use US-05 and W-34/70) will continue to give recommended amounts and you can't certainly make a starter starting with a single 11g pack, but you're on your own when it comes to figuring out what cell count to use as they're a bit all over the place. If I take the 6B cells per gram for US-05, 52g in the above recipe ends up pitching 312B cells which is less than 1/3 of what the calculator and I recommend when using liquid yeasts.
Pitch rates are controversial, so do whatever works best for you and gives you the results you want. Part of me didn't want to publish that yeast starter guide at all and I toyed with the idea to simply post what the yeast strain is in my recipes as I was afraid there would be a ton of backlash. Fortunately there wasn't.
Cheers!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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dnierer
Joined: 22 Jul 2013 Posts: 38 Location: Slatington, PA
Drinking: Electric Hop Candy
Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the detailed response, I thought something seemed a little off with the dry yeast calculations. I think I'll pose the same question to the folks at BrewersFriend, I'll let you know what their response is.
Dru
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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dnierer
Joined: 22 Jul 2013 Posts: 38 Location: Slatington, PA
Drinking: Electric Hop Candy
Working on: Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger
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Link Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the response I received from Brewers Friend Forum
"The issue is that the 6B/gram is the minimum viable cell density, which is going to be at the end of it's shelf life. On average most satchets of dry yeast contain about 200B cells, a satchet is 11.5g. That's 17.4 B / gram. You'll want~2-3 satchets"
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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dnierer wrote: | Here is the response I received from Brewers Friend Forum
"The issue is that the 6B/gram is the minimum viable cell density, which is going to be at the end of it's shelf life. On average most satchets of dry yeast contain about 200B cells, a satchet is 11.5g. That's 17.4 B / gram. You'll want~2-3 satchets" |
Odd as this information is nowhere in the calculator. In fact, the age correction part of the calculator goes away when you choose "Dry yeast". No mention of shelf life.
They only state "From the manufacturers: Fermentis: > 6B cells/gram for US-05 and S-04."
When they recommend 2-3 satchets of US-05 did they understand it's 12 gallons of 1.088 of wort? 2-3 sounds more like 5.5-6 gallons of 1.088.
But at the end of the day, use however much works for you. Cheers!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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