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50 amp panel powers down at 150 deg-f

 
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mjo2125



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 210
Location: Dayton, OH

Drinking: FuP Helles Bock

Working on: TBD


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:19 am    Post subject: 50 amp panel powers down at 150 deg-f Reply with quote


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I have a 50 amp DIY panel. I was testing the boil kettle circuit by boiling 6.5 gallons of RO water. The water at room temp was around 67 deg-f. As I was bringing it up to boiling temperature, the panel kicked-out (powered down) unexpectedly (amperage was about 23 amps) at 150 deg-f. With the key still in the On position, I turned the boil element Off and switched it back to the On position at which point the panel powered up and resumed the temperature ramp to boiling conditions. This has happened before, sporadically.

The Boil PID controller (SYL-2352) settings were as follows:

The A-M light was illuminated
A= 100
M=100
ALM1 = 2010
ALM2 = 0
Hy-1 = 0
Hy-2 = 9999 (factory setting)
Hy = 0.3 (factory setting)
At = 3 (factory setting)
I = 1000 (factory setting)
P = 500 (factory setting)
d = 120 (factory setting)
t = 2 (factory setting)
Sn = 21
dP = 0 (factory setting)
P-SL = -100 (factory setting)
P-SH = 2500 (factory setting)
Pb = 2
OP-A = 0 (factory setting)
OUTL = 0 (factory setting)
OUTH = 100 (factory setting)
AL-P = 17 (factory setting)
COOL = 10 (factory setting)
Addr = 1 (factory setting)
bAud = 9600 (factory setting)
FILt = 5
A-M = 0
LocK = 808 (factory setting)
EP1 = nonE (factory setting)

Could it have something to do with the duty cycle of the element? Should it be less than 100?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your entire panel is turning off, it's something to do with what powers the panel or the power input circuitry / safe start interlock. Nothing to do with a single PID or PID settings or duty cycle.

mjo2125 wrote:
With the key still in the On position, I turned the boil element Off and switched it back to the On position at which point the panel powered up and resumed the temperature ramp to boiling conditions. This has happened before, sporadically.

This is abnormal. I would test and replace any problematic contactors on the switch that you were turning that seems to cause the issue.

They're available here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/switches

Assumption is that you're usng our switches.

Kal

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mjo2125



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 210
Location: Dayton, OH

Drinking: FuP Helles Bock

Working on: TBD


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, that would make sense. I had an electrician install a 50 amp and 15 amp breaker in the service panel. I had issues with the 15 amp circuit so I called a different electrician. He showed me that the hot wire on the 15 amp breaker was loose (he tugged it and it came right out). The same thing may be going on with the 50 amp circuit. Ill shut off the main to the service panel and check for tightness on the 50 amp breaker first.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not good! Loose wires will create heat which can cause fires. Wires into breakers are supposed to be tightened to a specific ft-lb of torque (depends on the wire size). While I've never actually seen an electrician use a torque wrench to check this, most that I've watched work put a reasonable amount of force on them. Unlike aluminum wires, copper wires (which most people will have) should not come loose over time, but there's no harm in (carefully) going through all to make sure they're all tight. Make sure to turn off the main breaker first for safety reasons.

Kal

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mjo2125



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 210
Location: Dayton, OH

Drinking: FuP Helles Bock

Working on: TBD


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ran a voltage check along the path from the element relay through the cord and I think I found the problem. The element was failing/failed - see red residue on end of connection. The element was tested in water, never dry. I'm assuming it's a bad element rather than a spike in current that would have resulted in failure.


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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can always contact whomever you purchased these elements from for assistance. They should help you and support the products they sell. Good luck!

Kal

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mjo2125



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 210
Location: Dayton, OH

Drinking: FuP Helles Bock

Working on: TBD


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The element vendor advises that the residue is actually silicon and is normal. Failure of an element is rare (unless run dry). The element works - just not sure if it's 100% reliable or an issue with a loose power connection. I did find a loose (-) 22 ga wire on the PID to the SSR that was loose in its spade connector. I since soldered the connection and it works. I checked the continuity/resistance of the two elements (good one and suspect one) and they were the same. Even so, the vendor decided to send me a new one just in case.

The 50A breaker connections in the service box and at the outlet are solid.

The only remaining issue discovered is with the timer alarm pushbutton. When pressed it resets the time but doesn't shut off the visual and audible alarms. All connections are correct. I'll probably order a replacement from this website to make sure I get the right one.

thanks.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The timers we use/recommend are here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/temperature-controllers/products/omega-ptc-21-or-eagle-b506-5001-timer-with-socket

Cheers!

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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mjo2125



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 210
Location: Dayton, OH

Drinking: FuP Helles Bock

Working on: TBD


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep got the same timer. Will order the push button
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry! I mis-understood. Pushbutton is here:

https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/switches/products/momentary-pushbutton

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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