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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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 Link Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:14 am Post subject: TILT Hydrometer |
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Recently purchased a TILT hydrometer. A device that slips into the fermenter and floats on the wort. It has an on-board sealed microprocessor that senses and transmits temperature and gravity data throughout the fermenting process to a Bluetooth device like a smart phone. This could be useful in deciding when to perform a Diacetyl Rest for Lagers or to know when fermentation is done without the need to pull samples. One question is how reliable is the low energy Bluetooth signal from the TILT. Did an out of the box test and review…
TILT TEST & REVIEW – Tested the Tilt in water as below:
Test 1 – Standard Glass Carboy (1 out of 1 times signal established)
Test 2 – Standard Glass Carboy inside Fermentation Chamber (1 out of 1 times signal established)
Test 3 – Better Bottle Plastic Carboy (1 out of 1 times signal established)
Test 4 – Better Bottle Plastic Carboy inside Fermentation Chamber (1 out of 1 times signal established)
Test 5 – Corny Keg (1 out of 1 times signal established)
Test 6 – Corny Keg inside Fermentation Chamber (4 out of 6 times signal established)
Comments: The unit easily slipped through the narrow openings of the carboys. Right out the box when placed in water, sg=1.000 (nice) and temperature was spot on when compared against my Thermapen digital thermometer. Signal strength for fermenting Ales should be consistent and not an issue. Signal strength for fermenting lagers could be less consistent (at least for my set-up inside an upright fridge). Tilt does offer a signal booster/repeater to strengthen the RF signal of the Tilt inside the fermenter. The booster is placed on top of the fermenter. Depending on where I place the fermenter in the fridge, it may not be needed. Haven’t tested the google sheets logger as I plan to use a different IoT data logging service. Good information can be found on YouTube for advanced settings like multi-point calibrations, etc.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11120
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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chastuck
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 193
Location: Beckenham, Kent, UK
Drinking: Bitter
Working on: IPA
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I have four of the Tilts and find they are very accurate. They are very easy to calibrate if you find the gravity is a little off compared to a hydrometer. I even use them with my two stainless steel conical fermenters with no difficulty. The only possible draw back is that they tie up the use of a mobile phone if you want to keep a record from start to finish of a fermentation. I also have the repeater and find that this does improve the bluetooth range.
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, several guys in my brew club have them as well. While they love the Tilt, a few have commented about transient variability especially during the first stages of fermentation when activity is the highest and the Tilt is jostled a bit.
I believe you can set the sampling rate from 5 secs to 15 mins. At least one club member uses trending and averaging to smooth out the readings via the app. In the process control world, there are ways to correct/account for transient readings - some process control algorithms take consecutive temp readings and average them before reporting the data for logging or control.
I'll have to research which method can provide more accuracy - high sampling rates with averaging or lower rates. I could calibrate the Tilt at three points as well.
My primary interest is not so much in knowing specific gravity in the middle game of fermentation- it's the very beginning and near the end of fermentation (when things settle down) that I'm interested in - for dry-hopping and Diacetyl rests.
The Tilt isn't perfect for sure, but then again, I routinely take three samples when using my refractometer because I never trust the first reading. I have had consecutive refractometer readings vary significantly- operator error perhaps, but nonetheless, had I plotted those readings, I suspect I'd get a chart with variability similar to the Tilt's. Ultimately, the good ole floating hydrometer is a safe bet with the trade off of pulling samples.
Will be interesting to try for the first time on the next brew...
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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sample chart from a club member...
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11120
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Ozarks Mountain Brew
Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
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| Link Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:43 am Post subject: |
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we have support for the tilt at Brewers Friend and other devices now
https://docs.brewersfriend.com/devices/tilt
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Link Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Any plans for an Arduino UNO interface?
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Ozarks Mountain Brew
Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
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| Link Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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yes streaming devices supported with the right script using your api key
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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Mr Walleye
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Ossining, NY
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| Link Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:10 am Post subject: |
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I have one of these as well, and will soon be adding a second.
I love the thing! No issues at all receiving the signal through a stainless conical.
As mentioned, you will need some form of receiving device if you want to monitor the Tilt 24/7. Luckily I had an old tablet laying around that did the trick.
I've not really seen an issue with the thing bouncing around SG readings, it looks to be steady and accurate for me.
I've only had it for a short while and have used it for three batches, but no issues!
I have it linked to the brew session in Brewers Friend and it's really cool to be able to check on my ferment from all the way across the country!
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Link Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Tested Brewstat - a logging/graphic website that interfaces with the Tilt/Raspberry Pi. Brewstat can also upload BeerSmith recipes as a comparison of the expected vs. actual fermentation results. Brewstat provides a running ABV and attenuation. The actual OG on this beer was lower than expected. Boiled the wort in a steam-jacketed boiler and I suspect the boil wasn't vigorous or consistent enough.
The Tilt performed well - relative smooth reading (15 minutes apart).
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johnpbuckles
Joined: 18 May 2020
Posts: 11
Location: Denver, CO
Drinking: Juicy J NEIPA
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| Link Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:01 am Post subject: |
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My Tilt has worked great from day one, and I don't know how I would ferment without it! Comparisons with my traditional glass hydrometer have always been within my own eyesight's ability, i.e. they seem to agree as far as I can possibly determine.
https://flic.kr/p/2j3P4co
Readings are taken every 15-20 seconds, and a moving average of those is posted (up to) every 15min to the cloud, to your end-point of choice. I use the Brewfather software http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=332026#332026 and an old Android phone, which I leave on top of my fermenter. You can also setup a Rasberry Pi, which looks really neat, but a bit more complex. https://tilthydrometer.com/products/tilt-pi-v2-buster-feb20-raspberry-pi-sd-card-image-download
Gravity measurements are automatically adjusted for temperature, and it also provides you with temperature readings. This is great for a second measurement of your fermentation temperature, and honestly the only measurement I have available at the moment.
They also now sell a repeater, so if your fermenter is particularly bluetooth-hindering, or your logging device needs to be further away, it can extend the range of your Tilt. https://tilthydrometer.com/products/tilt-repeater
On my last tour of Avery Brewing in Boulder (Summer 2019) I KNOW I saw an employee looking at a computer screen with multiple Tilt Hydrometer read-outs. I had heard rumors that the Tilt was being used commercially, but now I'm convinced this is true. They probably have super-fancy/expensive software to track the readings, but the Tilt itself is plenty effective.
Cheers! 
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Link Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 11:58 am Post subject: |
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My Tilts performed well too. I recently calibrated both at three points for greater accuracy. I use Tilt repeaters when my stainless steel fermenters are in the fridge. Repeaters work well.
I had heard that a possible improvement for the next generation may be conical-shaped heads that are less likely to collect trub and effect readings. You may have noticed that small amounts of trub collect on the top of the Tilts during fermentation which could effect readings.
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Link Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Recently conducted a First Wort Hop experiment for a brew club on a Lager Beer to compare sensory impressions of a lager batch using FWH and one with traditional hop schedule. Both batches were fermented at the same time in a temp controlled chamber. Each batch's fermentation was monitored with a Tilt. The Tilts helped me determine when to perform a diacetyl rest without the need to take samples all the time.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11120
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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| Link Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| johnpbuckles wrote: | | My Tilt has worked great from day one, and I don't know how I would ferment without it! Comparisons with my traditional glass hydrometer have always been within my own eyesight's ability, i.e. they seem to agree as far as I can possibly determine. |
The Tilt is great for doing general trending and looking at averages, but it shouldn't be considered anywhere near accurate for a single reading during fermentation. Your graph shows this as during only a few hour period it's measured readings that sometimes are ~5-6 points *higher* than they were an hour or two earlier. That's impossible. A traditional glass hydrometer will never do this. Odd that your comparisons between the two were always be the same. It must have been pure concidence?
What this means at the end of the day is that you can't trust a single data point from the Tilt by itself. Make sure to use the data with the intended accuracy it provides (i.e. it's not meant for accurate readings). I know that Title states "The specific gravity is accurate +/- 0.002 within the Tilt's range of 0.990 to 1.120" but that's frankly useless and misleading without context. Yes, the technology may be that accurate when used in a laboratory still water condition but it doesn't get that accuracy in real life conditions as every graph of the tilt that has been published by brewers shows. Since most people use the Tilt for brewing (I assume) they should indicate that in real world conditions (i.e. during active fermentation) that the measurement could be off by as much as +/- 5 points. Hopefully all Tilt users realize this as they have graphs in front of them that show how big the swings can be sometimes from one hour to the next.
If you do want something that's a lot more accurate with the Tilt, interpose a trend line and only use that. Don't use the actual (individual) Tilt readings. A trend line (once it has enough data) should be fairly close to accurate and match what a hydrometer gives you as it gets rid of the 'noise' readings and averages things out.
The good news is that super-precise gravity measurement during fermentation isn't actually something we need in brewing. Really all a brewer cares about is an accurate original gravity (OG), the general trending during fermentation (not the specific data points), and then an accurate final gravity (FG).
When you measure ABV you need to use OG and FG hence the need for accuracy at those points. (Though some would argue that even being off by 10% in ABV isn't going to be noticed in the final product. More important for the commercial brewer who may want to present an accurate ABV to their consumers.)
In between those two points it's the general trending we care about. When we take actions (like doing a d-rest) they do not have to be done at very specific gravities. There's lots of leeway to when these actions are taken that will not affect the outcome. For example, many will do their d-rest after 2/3 of fermentation is done. Many others will do it about 5 points from terminal. Others will do it after terminal is reached. I've done them all. The difference is not apparent. Main reason to do it as early as possible is to speed up the cycle and get beer faster. Commercial brewers will do this as time is money. For home use I tend to go with somewhere near the end of fermentation, around 5 points from FG, just to make sure the yeast is still active (not dormant). 5 points is what I recommend in my recipes but it really doesn't matter much. Don't fret about the exact gravity. I don't - I just eyeball it from experience and I don't even have a Tilt. 
More info on the Tilt here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/measuring-gravity
Kal
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Link Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Kal I agree - I wouldn't get too hung up if one gravity reading is impossibly higher/lower than the previous - it is trends I'm looking at - rather than the minutiae. I don't care too much what happens during fermentation (in terms of SG) between OG and FG, except when I'm looking at the range of SG that I can begin the D-rest. The other readings in between are just a curiosity.
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Link Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Forgot to mention too that sometimes I'll harvest yeast by top-cropping when I'm fermenting an ale. I'll do this especially for a yeast that refuses to fall (e.g. Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire). I'll harvest about 1/2 of the yeast cake from my ss bucket fermenter when fermentation is about 60%-70% done and the cake is the thickest. The Tilt helps me estimate when I'm in the range to begin harvesting. Works pretty well and no issues with reaching terminal gravity.
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johnpbuckles
Joined: 18 May 2020
Posts: 11
Location: Denver, CO
Drinking: Juicy J NEIPA
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| Link Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I only rely on my Tilt to show me the general trend during fermentation. I think most people who use a Tilt understand this is more of the intent...
However, when resting in calm and still wort/beer, the Tilt's instantaneous readings do agree with my glass hydrometer.
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