Return to TheElectricBrewery.com
  [ Shop ]   [ Building ]   [ Using ]   [ Recipes ]   [ Testimonials ]   [ Gallery ]   [ FAQ ]   [ About Us ]   [ Contact Us ]   [ Newsletter ]

Log inLog in   RegisterRegister   User Control PanelUser Control Panel   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   MembershipClub Memberships   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums   Forum FAQForum FAQ


PID alarm

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Using Your Brewery
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chrisjpryor




Joined: 28 Sep 2017
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: PID alarm Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
The instructions for setting up the PID on this website state:

"ALM1: This setting can be used to set a high temperature alarm. As the temperature passes through this set value going upwards our alarm will sound."

This is not linked at all to the actual setpoint temperature that the brewer selects, but rather the static value that this setting is set to, so this instruction is not very useful. There is no other instruction on configuring the alarm.
How does one set the alarm to switch on when the setpoint is reached?
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

If you want ALM1 to sound at the setpoint value, you have change ALM1 to match the setpoint. I usually never change my ALM1 alarm setpoints. Here's how I have my ALM1 set:

Boil PID: 208F. This lets me know when I'm getting close to boil so that I can watch for boilovers. I usually set the boil to AUTO mode, 208F, and turn on the alarm so that it gets to and holds at 208F and the alarm sounds.

HLT: 168F. Lets me know when mashout/sparge temp is reached by the HLT. Not overly useful as I want to know when the mash reaches this temp, so:

MLT: 168F. Lets me know when the entire mash bed reaches mashout temp.

Some other useful alarms you can set are here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-setup

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
chrisjpryor




Joined: 28 Sep 2017
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured it out.

The settings that need to be adjusted are HY-1, HY-2 and HY. These allow the alarm to sound based on the temperature that the brewer chooses as the mash temp setpoint. HY-1 is the high alarm deviation (I set to 0 so the alarm fires exactly when the temp is reached), HY-2 is the low alarm deviation (I set to the max value because I don't use the low alarm), and HY is the hysteresis value (difference between the temp reading and the temp deviation that the alarm is triggered). So only the mash temp needs to be set, and the alarm setting will follow.

By using the ALM1 and ALM2 settings, you are setting a completely independent trigger for the alarm, and need to set both the mash temp and the alarm temp.
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'll be damned. You're right! I'll have to play with this a bit and update the instructions. I’m doing a major overhaul so timing is good. Make sure to set AL-P correctly too to define which of the 4 alarms (process hi/process low/deviation hi/deviation lo) is output to AL1 or AL2. You may only want the deviation ones, or all (the default).

You may want to leave Hy at the default of 0.3 to avoid any oscillations. Up to you. Really depends on what you're wanting to alarm off of.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Chris, how are you using the Hy-1 and Hy-2 deviation alarms? Are you finding it useful?

I'm brewing today and have been playing with this alternate form of alarming using Hy-1/Hy-2 deviation where the alarm follows the PID set value (SV) instead of using ALM1/ALM2 process alarms that are "hard set" numbers such as 208F in the boil to know when I'm close to boil and 168F in the mash to know when the grain reaches mashout temp.

My thoughts below...

Mashing:

I haven't been finding it overly useful for how I mash as the mash actually follows the temperature you set in the HLT not the MLT. The problem is that when I set these alarms in the HLT and the HLT process value (PV) reaches the set value (SV), the alarm goes off which is fine but the mash always lags behind, so the alarm doesn't tell me when the mash is at my set temp. It instead tells me that my HLT has reached set temp (which is what I care about). While it depends how you brew, for me that's not overly useful information as there's always going to be a few minutes delay for the MLT to catch up (depends on the amount of water/grain). Say I wanted to do step mashes and one of them is 145F for 60 minutes. I'd want know once the grain bed was at 145F so that I could start the timer to count 60 minutes: To have an MLT alarm go off once the grain bed reaches that temp using Hy-1/Hy-2 deviation alarm settings I'd need to also set the MLT SV to 145F in addition to setting the HLT PID SV to 145F. In other words, both PIDs always have been be set (even though the MLT doesn't control anything this form of alarming uses the SV value). It's not much extra work of course to set both, but it's somewhat confusing/illogical to have to set in 2 places. This coupled with the fact that going long with mash times isn't overly critical (there are minimums required for conversion based on temp but not really maximums so no worries if you mash 90 mins instead of only 60), I'm not finding it overly useful to set alarms using Hy-1/Hy-2 for MLT and HLT PIDs. I actually like to set my MLT SV to "0" so that it's obvious it's not controlling anything. Like here: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2HJmg3nQeI/
For the way I brew Hy-1/Hy-2 alarms would be more useful if the MLT and HLT pids were coupled such that the MLT PID was looking at (or using) the HLT SV. This way only one number to set. But that's just me.

Boiling:

In the boil I use an alarm at 208F to know when I'm getting close to boil so that I don't boil over. I haven't found myself using any other alarms, but that's just me again. The issue with changing over to Hy-1/Hy-2 deviation alarms instead of ALM1/ALM2 process alarms in the boil PID fore me is that it I would absolutely have to run in auto mode for the alarm to work as deviation alarms are based off SV. (Deviation alarms can't work in manual mode since there's no SV set). If I was using other temperatures for which I'd want an alarm to sound then I could see this being more useful in the boil. The only other temps do I use in the boil are when I do hop stands, typically in the 160-180F range (see my Hop Candy recipes as examples). For these beers however it only takes 3-4 minutes to drop the temp from 212F to hop stand temp and I'm in the room watching it as I'm controlling the cooling. Having it alarm when 180F is reached wouldn't add any value for me as my eyeballs are glued to the PID.

Summary:

So I think I'm going to leave my alarm settings as ALM1/ALM2 process alarms, at least for now. I'm definitely going to play around some more and thanks for opening my eyes to this! I had completely glossed over this in the manual. Having two different styles of alarming is definitely powerful as it allows the brewer to use whatever they want for how they brew. The fact that you can use both process and deviation alarms at the same time is pretty powerful too - the combinations are somewhat endless.

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Using Your Brewery All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group