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Sparge water questions

 
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Orbit



Joined: 11 Dec 2018
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:53 pm    Post subject: Sparge water questions Reply with quote


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** Originally asked in the The Electric Pale Ale (sessionable version) recipe **

i was wonder, this is relatively small beer yes? So how do you avoid oversparge?.
If for example I brew imperial stout, my last runnings will by around 8-9 plato (more or less), because there is so many sugars in grains.

But in this case you have practicly 2-2,5x less sugar in grains so when I brew smal beer around 1.040-1.050 after 9-10 gallons, its practicaly water what`s coming out from mash tun.
So maybe its better add water directly to kettle?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orbit wrote:
i was wonder, this is relatively small beer yes? So how do you avoid oversparge?.
If for example I brew imperial stout, my last runnings will by around 8-9 plato (more or less), because there is so many sugars in grains.

But in this case you have practicly 2-2,5x less sugar in grains so when I brew smal beer around 1.040-1.050 after 9-10 gallons, its practicaly water what`s coming out from mash tun.
So maybe its better add water directly to kettle?

Correct that for a smaller beer it's close to water near the end of the sparge.
If you follow my brew day step by step guide and use my setup, this is not an issue. In other words, you can't oversparge.
See the sparge step in my brew day step by step guide: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step?page=8

Also see: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/faq#Your_efficiency_is_really_high__Do_you_have_any_tannin_extraction_problems_

When I first started using this setup ~10 years ago I paid very close attention to the gravity near the end of the sparge to avoid oversparging because I wasn't sure if it would cause issues. I did tests with my lightest of beers (like light american lagers in the 4% range) where tannin extraction from oversparging may be noticed. I tried stopping at 1.008 and using water as well as just letting it run out through the grain bed. No difference in the end result because of the reasons I outline in the links above. So I always just let it sparge out normally as it's simpler.

You may certainly stop at 1.008 and top up with (treated) water but if you follow my process I don't see the need.

Cheers!

Kal

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Orbit



Joined: 11 Dec 2018
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for answer, but let me ask one more question. About sparge water ph, you said that 5.6-5.8 right ?
And if I had sparge water let`s say about 5ph ? or even lower ?

I ask because once i add phosphoric acid to sparge water 1ml to 18l (start ph was 6.89 RO water) and ph meter show me ph 3.14. I know it`s imbosible i`ve tasted this water and it wasn`t sour (like 3.14ph should be) So i assume that my ph meter is crazy Wink
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orbit wrote:
About sparge water ph, you said that 5.6-5.8 right ?
And if I had sparge water let`s say about 5ph ? or even lower ?

I'm not sure what two water pH you are comparing or referring to as you say "sparge water" for both.

Quote:
I ask because once i add phosphoric acid to sparge water 1ml to 18l (start ph was 6.89 RO water) and ph meter show me ph 3.14. I know it`s imbosible i`ve tasted this water and it wasn`t sour (like 3.14ph should be) So i assume that my ph meter is crazy Wink

I don't know. RO water has zero buffering and the pH will drop easily with any acid addition, so it may be normal. Add less acid and try measuring again.

I suggest you give my Water Adjustment article a read too: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/water-adjustment

I'm also going to split these questions and start a new thread in the Brewing Science sub-forum as they are not specific to my "The Electric Pale Ale (sessionable version)" recipe.

Cheers!

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Orbit



Joined: 11 Dec 2018
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I'm not sure what two water pH you are comparing or referring to as you say "sparge water" for both.


Yes sorry maybe i wrot this wrong.

You suggest that sparge water ph should be in range 5.6 to 5.8 ph right? And my question is what is sparge water was in range 4.8 to 5.0 ph?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orbit wrote:
You suggest that sparge water ph should be in range 5.6 to 5.8 ph right?

Correct. To quote my Water Adjustment guide:

"We want the sparge water pH to be below 6.0 (when measured at mash temperature), preferably in the 5.6 to 5.8 range."

Keep in mind that these are general guidelines. Some beers may be different. You may prefer something different too.

Quote:
And my question is what is sparge water was in range 4.8 to 5.0 ph?

Are you asking what would happen if your sparge water was in the 4.8-5.0 pH range instead?

It may lower the pH of the finished beer lower than you like. Most beer will be between 4.0 and 4.6 (measured at room temperature), with sour beers such as Lambics being even lower. If the beer has too high of a pH (over 4.6) it will be more prone to infection. Often, the pH of the final beer describes how “lively” a beer is. An otherwise well-brewed beer can taste lackluster if the pH is too high.

Try the beer, see what you think, and then adjust accordingly for the next batch if you'd prefer something different.

Cheers!

Kal

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alphakry



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 45


Drinking: Cider [extract]

Working on: Gin Barrel Saison [extract]


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, you weren't kidding about RO water having zero buffering... i added what i thought was only a small amount into almost 40 gallons of RO water and it shot the PH down from 7.3 to 4.3 !!! I was too scared to add anything to try to bring it back up, in fear it may mess up the water adjustments i've already made to hit the targets, so I've sparged this batch with that 4.3 water... hopefully it won't mess too much with my first attempt at the Electric Hop Candy JR!

I have another question regarding sparging as per your brew day instructions:
Quote:
"Slowly OPEN the Wort Pump valve to produce a slow trickle of wort into the Boil Kettle at a rate of approximately 1 gallon every 5 minutes (a slow rate helps maximize sugar extraction).

does this apply across the board to larger batch sizes? If i'm doing my math right, to sparge 1BBL worth at that rate, sparging would take about 3 hours. that sound right?

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alphakry wrote:
I have another question regarding sparging as per your brew day instructions:
Quote:
"Slowly OPEN the Wort Pump valve to produce a slow trickle of wort into the Boil Kettle at a rate of approximately 1 gallon every 5 minutes (a slow rate helps maximize sugar extraction).

does this apply across the board to larger batch sizes? If i'm doing my math right, to sparge 1BBL worth at that rate, sparging would take about 3 hours. that sound right?

No, I should probably clarify that: You want to take about 90 mins to sparge regardless of batch size. 120 mins is fine too. 60 mins as well, but you'l probably find that your mash efficiency is lower.

If batch size mattered, pro brewers with 50 bbl setups would take weeks to sparge. Wink

Kal

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