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Deschutes Black Butte Porter
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rivetcatcher



Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 118
Location: Thailand

Drinking: Timothy Taylor Landlord / Hop Candy Jr

Working on: Juicy Bits


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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To be honest, it did cross my mind to proceed with the brew and use the rye instead of the pale malt just to see how it turned out.

I watched a youtube vid of a 100% rye ale and the guy said it made a decent beer... but I want Black Butte

Anyway, the pale malt is on the way!!!

Rivet
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alphakry



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 56


Drinking: Cider [extract]

Working on: Gin Barrel Saison [extract]


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would Weyermann Carabohemian be a suitable replacement for the Crystal Malt in this recipe? It comes in at 64.5-83.4L
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alphakry wrote:
would Weyermann Carabohemian be a suitable replacement for the Crystal Malt in this recipe? It comes in at 64.5-83.4L

Sure! The recipe calls for Crystal 75L, and Carabohemian is a crystal malt in the 65-83L range.

Kal

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alphakry



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 56


Drinking: Cider [extract]

Working on: Gin Barrel Saison [extract]


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal! I'm bringing Weyermann into everything I do so I appreciate you helping confirm I selected correctly! Smile Very excited to make this beer!
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck! Let us know how you like it! I still have some on tap 2 years after making it - it's a great beer for that as it holds very well.

Kal

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alphakry



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 56


Drinking: Cider [extract]

Working on: Gin Barrel Saison [extract]


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and on that note, would Weyermann's Chocolate Wheat malt work out as well? Comes in at 375-450L - so it seems to match. Just wondering if the "wheat" nomenclature makes any difference.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alphakry wrote:
and on that note, would Weyermann's Chocolate Wheat malt work out as well? Comes in at 375-450L - so it seems to match. Just wondering if the "wheat" nomenclature makes any difference.

Chocolate wheat malt is wheat that's been highly kilned. Chocolate malt is barley that's been highly kilned.

I've never tried Chocolate wheat malt however. Here's what a bit Googling tells me:

"Generally speaking chocolate wheat malt isn't as bitter as chocolate malt. Dark wheat malts don't have the bitterness that you'd get in a chocolate barley. I've never heard of chocolate wheat malt to be honest, but midnight wheat offers very little in terms of harshness. Chocolate malt is a very potent malt that you don't want to add too much of and is often the issue with poorly crafted dark beers."

So you likely won't get as much bitterness or intensity if you did a direct substitution, but having never brewed with both to compare, I don't know. Try it and see. Whether it worked out is completely subjective and up to you.

Good luck!

Kal

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alphakry



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 56


Drinking: Cider [extract]

Working on: Gin Barrel Saison [extract]


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone tried a dry yeast alternative to the Wyeast 1968? Due to my current remote living situation, it's just too difficult to maintain using liquid yeast.

I've been reading up and Windsor seems to be a good choice? S-04 is another that comes up a lot but seems to be less then ideal. Has anyone tried or suggest something different?

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're limited to using dry yeasts I'd probably use this: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Fermentis-Safale-US-05-dry-yeast

Remember that yeasts behave differently depending on the temperature. In this case my recipe mentions: "Ferment at 64F until complete. (Keep below 65F to keep the esters somewhat in check)."

You want this to be a somewhat clean tasting beer. Remember too that many commercial breweries will only use one strain of yeast (or a low number of yeasts) and then 'work with it' to have it behave how they want for a specific beer. Deschutes supposedly uses an in-house, proprietary yeast strain resembling Wyeast 1187 Ringwood Ale yeast. But that doesn't mean that that's the yeast they'd necessarily want to use for this beer if given 'carte blanche' to use whatever they want.

So while people think of the WY1968 yeast mentioned in this recipe as producing fruit esters, those are most pronounced at higher temps and are much more subtle at lower temps. Don't assume that main characteristics of a specific strain are what you necessarily what want to showcase in a beer just because that strain is called for. Temperature is very important. Some yeasts throw completely different flavours based on temperature.

Another example of this is Stone Brewing who (at least at the time I put together their 'Enjoy By' Double IPA recipe) uses a proprietary strain that is similar to White Labs WLP007 Dry English Ale yeast. But again, given that the way they use it results in a fairly clean fermentation, any good clean American ale yeast can work as well including the Chico strain of yeasts (White Labs WLP001, Wyeast 1056, or Fermentis Safale US-05). More info in the recipe: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27210

TL/DR: When looking at substituting yeast, don't only consider the strain in question. It's more important to consider what you're wanting to getting out of it in terms of flavour. If the attenuation between strains varies greatly you may also have to play with the recipe a bit (increase or decrease fermentables) to get the same target FG you're after.

Cheers!

Kal

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alphakry



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 56


Drinking: Cider [extract]

Working on: Gin Barrel Saison [extract]


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome feedback, thanks Kal!

That's also quite convenient as I still have loads of Saf-05 left from the Blonde Ale recipe. So it certainly is music to my ears when you say something like 'work with it'.

I'm going to give the 1968 that I do have a try, in fact I'm in the middle of making the 5L starter now!
However given the packs are from 6 months ago and one of them even managed to freeze... I don't have a lot of faith and I'm glad to here you recommending an available alternative.

To confirm, would you keep the ferment temps down to 64 with the us-05 as well?

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I would keep the fermentation temp down around 64F with US-05 if you wish to suppress esters. Some say US-05 can throw peach flavours if you go much lower than that so keep that in mind. I've never tried it below 62F. YMMV.

Kal

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