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Mash/Sparge Water with high gravity beers

 
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lucianthorr




Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 19



PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:37 am    Post subject: Mash/Sparge Water with high gravity beers Reply with quote


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Hey everybody. This is probably half sanity check, half question...
I brewed what I'd consider my first high gravity beer, ~OG 1.081. Everything really seemed to go well but by using a slightly tweaked version of Kal's formulas, I ended up mashing with about 90% of the water and sparging with the final 10%.


It makes sense since the mash thickness is a function of the grain bill but I'm so accustomed to the ratio being closer to 60/40 that I thought I did something wrong. Do more experience brewers lower the mash thickness for higher grain bills or is sparging less important with these type beers?
My efficiency didn't seem to change much so it didn't seem to matter too much... it just got me thinking and figured I'd throw it out there.

Cheers
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparging with only 10% of the water would likely leave lots of sugar behind and result in a much lower mash efficiency. That's usually what happens: You have a lot more sugars to wash out of the grains and less water to do so, so mash efficiency naturally drops. This is true of any setup. I'm surprised that didn't happen. I'm assuming you fly sparged?

Normally all I do with high gravity beers is lower my expected mash efficiency, which means I have to use more grain.
For example, for anything under 8% ABV beer I'll assume 95% mash efficiency.
For a 9-10% I might assume 93% mash efficiency: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28755
For a 10-11% I might assume 88% mash efficiency: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27428
For a 12% I might assume 86% mash efficiency. Example: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25256

Every setup is different, and it depends on your process too.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally split my water in half on every normal brew so 10 gallons for both but I don't brew anything higher than 7% beers so I cant help with that issue
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys have me now wanting to brew a heavy beer! So it will be ready for next fall.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dp Brewing Company wrote:
You guys have me now wanting to brew a heavy beer! So it will be ready for next fall.

Few beers that that much aging.

Out of all of the high gravity beers I've brewed, only this one needs a year:

American Barleywine (12%): http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25256

These are great after a month or two:

Belgian Tripel (9.5%): http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28755
Belgian Super Saison (7.9%): http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30930

All of my highgravity IPAs (double/triple IPAs) are best consumed young for the freshest in hop flavours and aromas. See: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/recipes

Kal

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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I like to drink most of my beers fresh. The exception for me is Barleywine's and RIS's and a few others that are above 10% ABV.
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JMD887




Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Two Hearted Ale

Working on: American Red IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dp Brewing Company wrote:
You guys have me now wanting to brew a heavy beer! So it will be ready for next fall.


last month a brewed a Oatmeal Imperial Stout- Clocked in at 10% ABV. I placed a couple bottles in the cellar for next fall. super stoked to see what some age dose to it. It's damn tasty already thought.

Do you change the way you package it to store it for extended periods of time. I've heard of folks dipping the tops of bottles in wax ect.
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMD887 wrote:

Do you change the way you package it to store it for extended periods of time. I've heard of folks dipping the tops of bottles in wax ect.


You can do that but not required. Like everything on the cold side you need to make sure everything is as clean as possible. Oxygen getting into the bottle after capping/corking is another issue. Which is why some people wax the corks/caps. Ideal environment is a temp around 50 degrees and no excessive lighting.

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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I also recommend storing your homebrew bottles in a box. You'll thank me if you have have a bottle bomb.
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JMD887




Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Two Hearted Ale

Working on: American Red IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dp Brewing Company wrote:
Oh, I also recommend storing your homebrew bottles in a box. You'll thank me if you have have a bottle bomb.



Gottcha- Bottle Bombs suck- the very first batch I bottled about 1.5 years ago, one decided to blow in the fridge. Rolling Eyes took for ever to clean. thanks for the pointers/ tips

Mug
John
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better blowing in the fridge than when it's in your hand!

Bottle bombs are incredibly dangerous. Please be careful.

Kal

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JMD887




Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Two Hearted Ale

Working on: American Red IPA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Better blowing in the fridge than when it's in your hand!

Bottle bombs are incredibly dangerous. Please be careful.

Kal


Without a doubt. I always try to be as careful as possible.
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lucianthorr




Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 19



PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. And that's a really good point about mash efficiency Kal. I didn't even think of how that plays into the general formula. Note taken for next time!

I brewed a modified version of Michael Tonsmeire's Scandinavian Imperial Porter.
https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2007/10/scandinavian-imperial-porter.html

I halved the honey and co-pitched Irish Ale yeast with a big starter of brett. Hoping the brett dries it out and adds some fruitiness after a few months. Should be a fun one
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like an interesting beer!

Kal

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JMD887




Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 120
Location: Akron, Ohio

Drinking: Two Hearted Ale

Working on: American Red IPA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucianthorr- I agree with Kal, would like to hear how this one turns out!
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lucianthorr




Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 19



PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I finally kegged the "Scandinavian Imperial Porter" brewed with a co-pitch of Irish Ale yeast and Bootleg Biology's Funk Weapon #3. I kegged it after about a month in the fermenter and then used a spunding valve once or twice a week to relieve pressure while the brett did its work.

It tastes great but it definitely not a traditional tasting strong porter. I think the brett did contribute a nice fruitiness but it has thinned the body a bit. One the plus side, after carbonating it still holds a really nice coffee colored head, which is one of my favorite things about imperial stouts and porters.
If it weren't somewhere around 11%ABV, it'd be an easy drink. Considering it'll take me forever to drink a whole keg since I usually need a nap after one glass, it'll be interesting to see how it ages.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like an interesting beer! At 11% ABV definitely not easy drinking... (thankfully). Wink

Kal

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