Return to TheElectricBrewery.com
  [ Shop ]   [ Building ]   [ Using ]   [ Recipes ]   [ Testimonials ]   [ Gallery ]   [ FAQ ]   [ About Us ]   [ Contact Us ]   [ Newsletter ]

Log inLog in   RegisterRegister   User Control PanelUser Control Panel   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   MembershipClub Memberships   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums   Forum FAQForum FAQ


Belgian Super Saison
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Recipes & Ingredients
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Excellent! Glad to hear you both like it!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
Firetech



Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Utah


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any suggestions on using fresh raspberries with this recipe?
_________________
Instagram: east_millcreek_brewing
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firetech wrote:
Any suggestions on using fresh raspberries with this recipe?

Go light. The beer taste is pretty delicate. Easily overpowered by fruit like that. That said, I'm not big into brewing with fruit or additives so no idea how much to add or when. Sorry! Maybe someone else can chime in...

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
perogi



Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 830
Location: NH

Drinking: Perogi Pale, NEIPA, Nutter's Crossing Nut Brown Ale, Edmund Fitzgerald Porter Clone

Working on: Max's Maibock


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone experience the Saison stall? https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts (Scroll down to Avoiding the Saison "Stall")
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only brewed this one once, but didn't experience the 'stall'.
See the notes section of the recipe as well for more info on this - I think the trick is in my words here:

Pitch yeast and ferment at 66F for the first 3 days then allow the temperature to rise to 85-90F until complete (raise a few degrees per day). Do not allow temperature to drop.

If you do have issues:

If yeast seems to be stalling, do not be afraid to raise temperature as high as 95F to ensure proper attenuation as this yeast works well at higher temperatures. If the temperature is not raised this way the strain tends to stall out in fermentation at the 75% mark and then sometimes restart as long as two weeks later. Some brewers have had to resort to champagne yeast to finish.


Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
perogi



Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 830
Location: NH

Drinking: Perogi Pale, NEIPA, Nutter's Crossing Nut Brown Ale, Edmund Fitzgerald Porter Clone

Working on: Max's Maibock


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal - I'm planning on using that fermentation schedule.

Debating on the "use foil" part of the link I posted. Seems reasonable considering this person's experience with saisons but it's summer and summer means flying critters. I'm not completely convinced that putting foil over the top when it's fermenting will give it enough room to "burp" out the CO2 without gnats getting into the wort/beer.


Last edited by perogi on Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That foil/pressure thing doesn't sound plausible to me. I didn't use foil - I used my regular blow-off tubes (as shown in the pics in the recipe).

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
Ozarks Mountain Brew



Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the fly problem in my boil kettle, the other day I fished out 10, for some reason flies and yellow jackets love boiling wort
_________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flies or other bugs in the boil kettle = no big deal as they get boiled.
Flies or other bugs in the fermenter = much bigger deal as they can infect the beer, especially if it's near the start of fermentation and the alcohol level is low.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
perogi



Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 830
Location: NH

Drinking: Perogi Pale, NEIPA, Nutter's Crossing Nut Brown Ale, Edmund Fitzgerald Porter Clone

Working on: Max's Maibock


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
That foil/pressure thing doesn't sound plausible to me. I didn't use foil - I used my regular blow-off tubes (as shown in the pics in the recipe).

Kal


Didn't use foil - current gravity is at 1.002.

Thanks for the post of "don't do something crazy" Smile
Back to top
Tripel



Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 17
Location: Pennsylvania

Drinking: Belgian Wit, Kolsch, Flemish Red (no bret), Bohemian Lager

Working on: Electric Hop Candy (NEIPA)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal, Long time. My system is still working flawlessly.

I've been chomping at the bit to brew some sours but have concerns about introducing wild cultures to my system.

Any worries about a wild yeast infection? Did you do anything different with your equipment or cleaning procedures?

I've read that diastaticus can be harder to eradicate than bret.

Thanks,

York

_________________
"Creativity is the residue of time wasted" Albert Einstein

"Whisper to Thunder" Jimmy Page
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi York!

Valid question. I didn't do anything special about cleaning, because from what I can tell at the time I brewed this beer there was no mention of Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus being a possibility in their WLP565 strain. Fast forward a few months and White Labs was sued by Tired Hands brewing and the following text showed up on a bunch of their yeast pages:

Quote:
**This strain has been genetically typed in our lab using polymerase chain reaction (PCR). Through this genetic testing, we have determined WLP565 Belgian Saison I Yeast to contain the STA1 gene (glucoamylase), a potential indicator of Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus. Brewers yeast are natural hybrids, which make it possible for certain strains to display elements of the STA1 gene. These strains have the ability to utilize some dextrins (unfermentable sugars), resulting in higher levels of attenuation than what is considered typical.

At White Labs, we do everything possible to detect for undesired organisms within our process and cultures. The strains we carry with known Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus genetics have been researched and validated to perform without excessive over-attenuating, which is possible through our nearly 25 years of experience paired with internal and external fermentation data.**

My take: They're not saying the strain has Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus, but that it *may*. A CYA move most likely on the part of White Labs.

I've made dozens of batches since this one that attenuated normally so that's good (for those that aren't aware, the presence of Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus will usually have your beer attenuate considerably lower than you'd expect as it eats through just about anything).

I'd clean/sanitize anything that comes in contact with the yeast very thoroughly, a physical cleaning (not just soak).

Good luck!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
Tripel



Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 17
Location: Pennsylvania

Drinking: Belgian Wit, Kolsch, Flemish Red (no bret), Bohemian Lager

Working on: Electric Hop Candy (NEIPA)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal for the thorough response.

I've read where it is causing headaches for some pro brewers. They're sending bottle bombs out to market thought to be fully attenuated. They say 1 cell of the variant is all it takes to start fermentation of any remaining dextrins in finished beer. Someone posted that it will even ferment old socks and underwear Smile

Others have posted they use it frequently with no cross contamination.

Wyeast indicates it is present in their Belgian Saison:

STRAIN: 3724
BELGIAN SAISON ™

Species: Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus

This strain is the classic farmhouse ale yeast. A traditional yeast that is spicy with complex aromatics, including bubble gum. It is very tart and dry on the palate with a mild fruitiness. Expect a crisp, mildly acidic finish that will benefit from elevated fermentation temperatures. This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 S.G. Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures, at least 90°F (32°C), or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation.

This Wyeast yeast strain has been classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus using rapid PCR analysis. This strain carries the STA1 gene, which is the “signature” gene of Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus and will be found in all diastaticus strains.

What to do...? I just retubed the brewery and Keezer this year. I have a bottle of Saison Dupont to sip tonight and ponder.

Thanks, York

_________________
"Creativity is the residue of time wasted" Albert Einstein

"Whisper to Thunder" Jimmy Page
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. These issues can certainly give a brewer pause!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Recipes & Ingredients All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Support our site by purchasing through this link. We thank you!

Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group