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Low efficiency issues

 
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Tonto_ale_works




Joined: 21 Oct 2018
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:20 am    Post subject: Low efficiency issues Reply with quote


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So five brews in and been having low efficiency issues (mash average of 80%. Brewhouse ~75%. Not sure what the issue is. I have been noticing that my grain bed seems to "float" when I start to sparge. Floating has happened on all but 1 brew. I think this is causing the sparge water to channel as the water kind of pools to one side because the grain is floating and blovking even flow around the bed?

Also I'm not using my own mill. LHBS has their mill set to ~.029 . I know my gap setting needs to be highe (.045). Anyone else use a lower gap setting and how does it affect efficiency?

I think I need to figure out why my grain bed is floating and what I can do to prevent it.

Using Keggles and chugger pumps but everything else is the same.

Water PH levels 5.2 mash. 6.8 sparge. Sparge length ~60 minutes which I would like to extend but the chugger pumps are touchy when fully necked down.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

80% mash efficiency isn't bad, especially if you're using keggles with a false bottom that may result in side-wall shunting since there's by definition no step for the false bottom to sit on to avoid it. Milling really tight like you mentioned will only exasperate this as the fluid will follow the path of least resistance around the outside.

Consider (in order):

1) Crush
2) Speed of sparge
3) Mash tun geometry and configuration
4) pH

My guess is a combo of tight crush (1) with sub-optimal mash tun geometry (3).
Want a really good mash tun and false bottom? To this day I have not seen something as efficient and easy to use as: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview?page=2

Lots of discussion around efficiency on this forum in the past if you want to search. It's a topic that's come up dozens of times.

Good luck!

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

80% on keggles is actually pretty good IMO.
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itsnotrequired




Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 177
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i get the 'floating mash' phenomenon every once in a while. i freaked out the first time i saw it but a gentle stir wit the paddle only a couple inches into the liquid broke up the floaters. after a few minutes, these had settled and sparge went well. it wasn't the whole bed floating, only a little bit at the top. it wasn't noticeable during recirc, it wasn't until i stopped the pump to setup the sparge did i see the floating. have you confirmed it is the whole bed and not just the top amount?

i set my efficiency at 80% in beersmith and my brews only require a few ounces of additional grains for any of kal's recipes. the efficiency is calculated based on false bottom dead space, hose loss, trub loss, etc. and depending on how those values are entered, the efficiency can jump around. i'm happy to hit my numbers within a couple points and only have a growler or so of liquid leftover after filling two 5 gal kegs.
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Tonto_ale_works




Joined: 21 Oct 2018
Posts: 11



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies fellas. Guess I'll start saving the pennies to get a grain mill.

I was wrong on the 80%, its more about 75% which after some research is still pretty good for keggles apparently. Brewhouse efficiency (beersmith definition) is 70%.

Spent the day really figuring out volume loss in hoses, bottom of kettles, trub loss etc. in order to really nail down the process (lots of time with the Gov. Shutdown).

I'll check the floating issue next time. And yes, it happens after I turn the pump off to reconfigure for sparking. It sure seems like the while damn bed is floating but I guess looks can be deceiving. I'll give it a stir next time.

Side note. Anyone know a good number for wort loss to hop additions? I feel like in 10 gallon batches that wort the wort loss is much more noticeable. The 15 gallon keggle really gets pushed to the limits!
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

75% is definitely still reasonable.

I don't do any calculations for wort hop additions. If it's a hoppy beer I plan for 12 gallons post boil (at 68F) in order to get 10 gallons into kegs, as I know I'll lose a good 1 to 2 gallons between the boil kettle hop absorption and dry hopping. If it's a non-hoppy beer (simple lager, Kolsch, etc) I'll instead aim for 11 gallons post boil (at 68F).

If I have to dump 1/2 gallon when kegging because I have too much, that's fine. I'd rather dump a bit than have kegs that are only 80-90% full.

Cheers!

Kal

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