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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Pre-Boil gravity vs. post-boil gravity for West Coast IP |
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Dan Cook wrote: | Kal, I see a WCIPA clone recipe at BrewersFriend.com (http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/221865/green-flash-west-coast-ipa-clone). Not sure if it was you who created the BrewersFriend recipe or somebody else did and simply referenced you as the inspiration / source, but in any case the recipe calls for a pre-boil gravity of 1.048 and a target OG of 1.069. A 21-point (43%) rise in gravity seems like a lot. Do you ever plan for that much concentration, and if so do you boil for more than 90 mins to accomplish it? |
I didn't enter that recipe on that site so I can't comment on it.
That said, recipes should never include a pre-boil gravity as that's system (not recipe) dependent. Different systems will boil off different amounts of water, so the pre-boil gravity will vary by system. To include the pre-boil gravity in a recipe doesn't make any sense.
Quote: | I listened to the original podcast just this morning of The Jamil Show / "Can You Brew It?" for cloning this beer, and the brewer (I think it was Tasty McDole?) mentioned a concentration from pre-boil = 1.054 to OG = 1.069. That seems more in line with my own experience. |
All depends on your boil off rate. It's system dependent. It's why I don't list pre-boil gravity in my recipes as it'll vary by system, just like mash efficiency. Use whatever works for your particular setup to achieve the post boil target I list for this recipe.
Good luck!
Kal
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Dan Cook
Joined: 14 Jan 2015 Posts: 12 Location: Seattle
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Link Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Kal, thanks for the reply.
Another thing to note, which most of you folks probably noticed already, is that Green Flash changed the recipe for West Coast IPA in mid-2014. It is now an 8.1% Double IPA. I wasn't aware of this and bought a six-pack yesterday so that I have a basis for comparison when I try to clone it. Imagine my surprise when I looked at the label.
I'll be sticking with the humble single IPA original recipe. Can anybody think of a decent near-substitute for the original 7.1% West Coast IPA for comparison?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Orbit
Joined: 11 Dec 2018 Posts: 11
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I have a question it is probably stupid but you tell to ferment 66-68F so this is temp of beer not the place where carboy stands yes ?? And now if beer temp should be 66-68F what sholud be "room" temp ? 4-5 degrees lower ?? Approxymately of course
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi and welcome to the forum!
66-68F is indeed the temperature of the beer.
What the ambient should be will vary depending on how active the fermentation is. During the most active phase the wort/beer can be 2-4 degrees higher then ambient depending on the type of fermenter used, the volume being fermented, etc. I would probably go with 64F ambient if possible. Near the end of fermentation there's no harm in raising the temperature too.
If you use Chico/US-05 yeast (as per the recipe) it's pretty forgiving as far as temperature goes.
Good luck!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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Orbit
Joined: 11 Dec 2018 Posts: 11
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | Hi and welcome to the forum!
66-68F is indeed the temperature of the beer.
What the ambient should be will vary depending on how active the fermentation is. During the most active phase the wort/beer can be 2-4 degrees higher then ambient depending on the type of fermenter used, the volume being fermented, etc. I would probably go with 64F ambient if possible. Near the end of fermentation there's no harm in raising the temperature too.
If you use Chico/US-05 yeast (as per the recipe) it's pretty forgiving as far as temperature goes.
Good luck!
Kal |
Thank you very much
PS sorry for my english
PS2 Are you ever brewed Black IPA ??
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Orbit
Joined: 11 Dec 2018 Posts: 11
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Link Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks
I have one more question. In this saturday I plan brew west coast grain bill and hops are difrent. (If i be honest basicly everything is different) But i experiment with water lately so I wanted to try Your profile. But my question is. With mash temp 150 is this beer will not be too thin ??? I know west coast should be dry but im affraid beer will be unbalance. In my grain bill is only 84% Pale Malt/ English Pale (im sorry in Europe We have Pilsen Malt and Pale Ale Malt as base malt) and 16% Cara Clair. So do You think beer will not be too thin (aa og is 15.5 Plato is something about 1.062)
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Orbit wrote: | With mash temp 150 is this beer will not be too thin ??? |
No. The FG should be around 1.013. That's what matters. That isn't overly dry. You choose a mash temp to hit your expected target FG.
The FG of any beer however is a function of many things. Mash temp is only one factor that affects FG. The others are:
(1) The mash temp (or overall mash schedule if you step mash)
(2) How much unfermentables you use (in this case 15.4%). These will not ferment out. The more unfermentables (like crystal malts) that you use, the higher your FG will be.
(3) How attenuative the yeast is. In this case US-05 is somewhat middle of the road but we're going for 81.2% attenuation which is fairly high, so we're mashing somewhat low.
(4) The starting gravity (since yeast attenuation is a %). The higher the gravity, the lower you need to mash to hit the same FG assuming everything else stays the same.
If on your setup you do not hit the same FG number, you can certainly adjust the mash temp or any of the other items listed above to compensate. Keep in mind that changing some of the things (like the % of unfermentable malts or yeast) will of course change the taste as well. But that's what makes brewing interesting. Experimentation is required.
If you plan on having a starting gravity of 1.062 instead of 1.069 as per the recipe, you may want to bump up the mash temp by a couple of degrees. Completely up to you.
Good luck!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Orbit
Joined: 11 Dec 2018 Posts: 11
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Link Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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oh, ok thank You.
I think I try start with 154 and let it drop for 60 min, so it probably ending in 150
thanks again
but i have to brew one of your recipes from A to Z
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Orbit
Joined: 11 Dec 2018 Posts: 11
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Link Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 4:38 am Post subject: |
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I was wonder, in many of your recipes you clear beer with gelatin. Do you think that, this can reduce hop aroma from dry hopping
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Orbit
Joined: 11 Dec 2018 Posts: 11
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Link Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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So maybe it is better to dry hop beer after gelatin cleaning? But dry hops (I think not all) make the beer hazy. So clarification would be pointless. I have to try dry hop after gelatin with different hops. Thanks
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Orbit
Joined: 11 Dec 2018 Posts: 11
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Link Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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one more question, you used 36g yeast us-05 in this recipe. So there were 3 packages or you have a large yeast bag of 500 g, and you've weighed exactly 36 g?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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