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Smoking Receptacle or wiring

 
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tmcmaster007




Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: South Lyon, MI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Smoking Receptacle or wiring Reply with quote


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I've been using the brewery I built using Kal's directions since 2011. So far, I've had almost no issues. Last Saturday I was brewing a batch when I smelled something like burning plastic. I immediately turned off the panel. When I opened up the panel door smoke billowed out. I was able to switch the boil element plug to the HLT receptacle and reprogram the PID to finish the brew. The HLT element, receptacle, and all parts associated with it are in perfect working condition. It appears as the receptacle (locking flange) for the boil element, or the wiring melted (or both). If I replace all wiring leading to the receptacle and receptacle itself will this likely solve the issue? Or is there a bigger issue that is just manifesting itself at that location? I LOVE this panel and have brewed hundreds of gallons on it. TIA.

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Crabby T
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

Got any pictures?

There was likely a loose wire somewhere, something that wasn't fastened properly that became looser over time with heat expansion/contraction. Anything melted or charred should be replaced.

Receptacles are here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/plugs-connectors-receptacles
If this is a heating element receptacle, you want: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/plugs-connectors-receptacles/products/nema-l6-30-250vac-30a-twist-lock-electrical-receptacle

Wiring is here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/wiring
For the heating element receptacles you want the 10 gauge T90/THWN/THHN wire.

Why does a loose wire cause this? Heat is created when current flows through an area that is too small to handle the amount of current. This can happen:

(a) with a loose connection where only a few strands are making contact because the wire is not properly tightened/fastened, and/or
(b) a wire that is too small to handle the current is used, and/or
(c) when a properly sized wire is used but some of the copper strands were cut/trimmed to get it to fit (this should never be done), or
(d) if an electrical socket or blade is dirty or charred or if the plug is not pushed and locked in properly with the receptacle.

All of these cases effectively reduce the contact area meaning that more current flows through a smaller area which in turns creates more heat which can melt the insulation on wires and damage nearby components.

It could also be that you’re actually pulling too much current by using oversized heating elements. This would only be possible if an incorrectly sized breaker was installed in the electrical panel (larger than 30 or 50 amps, depending on your control panel size) as otherwise the breaker would pop if more than 30A or 50A was pulled. A 30A or 50A breaker should be used (sized for your control panel) per our control panel instructions.

I would look first to where all the heat is created. If a wire is melting, it's likely the closest spot to the bad connection.

I may also be a bad part, but that's rarer.

Good luck!

Kal

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tmcmaster007




Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: South Lyon, MI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll post some pics later if I can. The wire run to the Boil vessel is the longest. Suppose a wire came loose somehow over the last nearly 8 years. Thanks for the help.
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Crabby T
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If properly fastened from the beginning a wire shouldn't come loose over time. (Just like the wiring in our home's electrical wall receptacles do not come loose over time). Definitely replace anything charred or burnt however.

Length of cord between the kettles and the control panel shouldn't matter.

Good luck!

Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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tmcmaster007




Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: South Lyon, MI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So something like this could take 7 years to show up? I never move the boil kettle. I guess I could have moved it a bit while cleaning, but I generally clean in place. I'll be sure to follow your guidelines about tight connections and intact wires when I repair. Thanks again.
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Crabby T
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tmcmaster007 wrote:
So something like this could take 7 years to show up?

Yup!

Quote:
I never move the boil kettle. I guess I could have moved it a bit while cleaning, but I generally clean in place.

That's not related. Your issue happened in the control panel, likely from a loose connection in there. Something likely wasn't fastened properly and became looser over time with heat expansion/contraction as you used the panel. Nothing to do with moving the kettle.

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
tmcmaster007




Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: South Lyon, MI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it. Just trying to puzzle out what I may have done wrong as to not repeat a mistake. I'll be sure to attend to precision on the repair. Thanks again.
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Crabby T
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely one of the (a) through (d) items I mentioned above in the second post - give it a read to confirm. (a) is the most common, followed by (c).

Good luck!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
tmcmaster007




Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: South Lyon, MI


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snapped a pic. Red wire was the hot one. Gonna replace flange and wiring.
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Crabby T
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely replace. These receptacles we have on clearance pricing (because they do not fit our pre-punched enclosures) may work for you:

https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/collections/plugs-connectors-receptacles/products/nema-l6-30-250vac-30a-twist-lock-electrical-female-receptacle-beige

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
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