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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:45 am Post subject: D.C. Power Supply Adjustment / Voltage Reading |
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Firing up the control panel for the first test. I purchased the panel in kit form. Both D.C. power supplies have input of 21.4 volts, but I get a very low and fluctuating output reading from both supplies. Volt meter lights up, but not amp meter. Backed off the adjustment per instructions at installation. Attempted to adjust output but no amount of adjustment will increase the output voltage. Any ideas?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Hi Kal,
OK, disconnected the wires to the meters at the power supplies. Powered the panel back up, I do get the blue power on light. Checked out voltage at the supplies and the reading counts down on the tester from 0.9XXX and reads consistent at 0.024V. The little red LED on both supplies is very bright for what that may be worth.
Lynn
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Yikes! Rookie mistake. I didn't switch the tester to DC to measure the output. Now I get 26.00V. I have backed off the adjustment screw quite a bit with no drop in voltage, but I cranked it up a lot trying to get an output. Probably just have to keep backing off until I get it adjusted.
Lynn
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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The following is the current readings after trying to make further adjustments:
Volt meter - IN=21.00VAC OUT=26.00VDC
Amp meter - IN=21.50VAC OUT=00.00VDC (I now get nothing out and the red LED light is not lit)
The only wires connected to the DC power supplies is to the IN terminals, I disconnected the OUT wires so nothing is going to the meters.
No amount of adjustment on either power supply makes ANY change in the volt readings.
Lynn
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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The order of operations here is important - what you did when to which power supply. Re-reading your posts I'm realizing I don't really follow.
Let's take the voltmeter:
Originally you mentioned in your first post that the voltmeter lit up fine, so I figured you would not touch that one at all or adjust it.
But then you wrote:
LMartin wrote: | Yikes! Rookie mistake. I didn't switch the tester to DC to measure the output. Now I get 26.00V. I have backed off the adjustment screw quite a bit with no drop in voltage, but I cranked it up a lot trying to get an output. Probably just have to keep backing off until I get it adjusted. |
There's no mention of which power supply was adjusted here, but since since the volt meter one was working fine by the sounds of it, you didn't adjust the volt meter power supply here at all right? Just the amp meter power supply?
But now you're saying that you're getting 26VDC out of the volt meter power supply, so something's not right. Did you adjust the voltmeter power supply? Why? What was it reading before? My concern is that if you put 26V into the voltmeter you'd probably fry it so not sure if it was set to that earlier when it was hooked up to the voltmeter. It wouldn't work for sure per your first post, so I'm trying to understand what was done and when.
If something was wired incorrectly between one of the meters and the power supplies originally, that can destroy the meter and sometimes the power supply to (depends on the mistake). If the voltage on a power supply is set too high (even if wiring is correct), that can damage the meters and while unlikely it can possibly also damage the power supplies at the same time (depends how the meter fails).
Before you turned on any power, did you adjust the power supplies at all to make sure they didn't put out more than 5V DC?
Kal
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Slight aside Lynn: I was looking up your email to confirm something and noticed you purchased a couple of NC contactors a week or so ago... since you purchased our control panel kit you don't need extra parts like this. They're already included in your kit. I assume you were looking for a couple of NC contactors to use with the safe start interlock? From the build instructions:
Quote: | When you previously purchased the various selector switches, they most likely came with both a normally open (NO) and a normally closed (NC) contactor. Up until now we have not used the NC contactors. We will be wiring up the two NC contactors on the pump switches and adding two NC contactors to the ELEMENT SELECT switch. These two new NC contactors are screwed into the backs of the existing NO contactors (see picture further below). Use two of the NC contactors from any of the other switches (other than the pump switches of course). |
Just looking to save you some time/money for next time!
Good luck!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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You are correct Kal, I did purchase "extra" NC contactors. I didn't realize until I was installing them that I already had them. I noticed on the other switches that there they were all the time. Good grief! At least they're cheap.
That said I think I may have caused damage to the control panel, maybe the DC power supplies I'm having trouble with. What I did was instead of adding the NC contactors on top of the element select switch like I was supposed to, I added the NC wiring to the NO contactors. I realized something was wrong when I powered up and the boil element relay closed, not the power in relay. Once I added the NC contactors as I should have the power in relay closes as it is supposed to. I fear I may have damaged the DC power supplies and probably the amp or both meters as well.
Lynn
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Kal,
Unfortunately I built the panel with the safe start interlock wiring added on top of the element select switch wiring. So the sequence of events is I powered up the panel for the first time and determined something was wrong when the boil relay closed. Reading the safe start instructions again and more carefully I realized my mistake in not adding the NC contactors. After receiving the NC contactors I didn't need, I corrected that mistake and continued with the control panel setup instructions which was checking the D.C. power supplies.
Lynn
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the help Kal, replacement parts ordered.
Lynn
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I'll post back once I get the new parts installed and I'll not make the same mistake twice.
Lynn
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Still having issues with the meters. Good news though that didn't stop me from my inagural brew last Sunday! The amp transformer now appears to be dead so I'm going to replace both and start over. My question is, I have no more telephone station wire, but I do have some 16 gauge wire. Any problems with using that from the transformers to the D.C. Power supplies and from there to the meters?
Lynn
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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LMartin
Joined: 25 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Brookfield, WI
Drinking: Brown Shugga, Bridgeburner, Accidental Amber, Electric IPA
Working on: Red IPA
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Link Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm happy to report I have sorted out my self inflicted problems (damage). I replaced all components and wiring for both meters. My mis-wiring did far more damage than I first thought. My mistake was not reading the WRITTEN instructions carefully instead of just going by the pretty pictures in the instructions.
Thanks again for the help Kal.
Lynn
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11121 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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