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Element plug stuck in Flanged outlet
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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:38 am    Post subject: Element plug stuck in Flanged outlet Reply with quote


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Just finished a brew day. I was going through all the cleaning. The boil kettle I usually have to move to clean it, but Element plug stuck in Flanged outlet. And I mean stuck. I'm pretty sure I might break it if I use anymore force. I had to remove the whole flanged outlet so, I could clean the kettle. I still can't separate them. Should I just give it a shot with extra force? They aren't that expensive to replace. Is there anything safe I can spray in there to perhaps loosen it up? I'm not even sure what caused it to get stuck. I had to run it pretty hard near the end to get the down to 12 gallons due to humidity here today. High load and heat perhaps fused it?

Thought I'd get some opinions before I did any real damage to myself or the flange.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The locking element plug should not fuse itself to the control panel locking receptacle.

My guess is that it wasn't properly locked and/or not properly inserted which is turn caused current to flow through a smaller than normal area which caused heat which may have charred/caused things to fuse together slightly. I would use force and then inspect. How does the control panel element receptacle look inside the control panel? Any signs of heat damage?

Can you tell us more about your setup and what parts you used? I don't see any orders from us for these sorts of parts so not sure what products you're using exactly.

Kal

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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
My guess is that it wasn't properly locked and/or not properly inserted which is turn caused current to flow through a smaller than normal area which caused heat which may have charred/caused things to fuse together slightly. I would use force and then inspect. How does the control panel element receptacle look inside the control panel? Any signs of heat damage?
There is nothing obvious. No charring to wires or the actual flange. No discharge or burnt plastic odor. The first thing I did once I realize there was an issue was give it a sniff.

kal wrote:
Can you tell us more about your setup and what parts you used? I don't see any orders from us for these sorts of parts so not sure what products you're using exactly.

Kal
L6-30 flanged outlet and L6-30P plug are the two pieces. Amazon sourced. NEMA is the brand, I believe.

If you suggest forcing them apart, I'll do that. Sounds like you want to make sure this isn't a larger issue.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may simply have parts that are tight. I'd use force to open.

Kal

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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forced them apart. I had to pry them apart with a screw driver and a lot of force. There was some charring (very minor) and maybe some melting. Hard to tell how much melting due to damage from the separation. I guess I’ll order the replacements. Anything else I should be looking for to prevent further issues?
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d be curious to understand why the problem happened in the first place to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Without seeing them or knowing how things were assembled in the first place it’s hard to make specific recommendations about what (if anything) was done incorrectly.

Kal

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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





Here is some photos of the plug and flanged outlet. My hope is that it was just too humid. I brewed in the garage on a rainy day in Alabama. I don't use a hood, so that doesn't help. If you want images of the panel I can do that also.
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Kazumichan




Joined: 07 May 2014
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Location: Cincinnati Ohio area

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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like that one prong got hot. I would bet that the connection on one side or the other was/is loose, most likely on the plug side.
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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kazumichan wrote:
It looks like that one prong got hot. I would bet that the connection on one side or the other was/is loose, most likely on the plug side.
If that's all it takes to cause this issues, yes that is possible. The other kettles either don't have a plug or don't need to be moved to clean. I am guilty of treating that plug roughly and have needed to bend it back straight on several occasions.
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Humidity wouldn't be a concern.

To me it also looks like one of the spades got hot, and my bet would be on the wire side (where you connect the wire to the spade and screw it tight on the back) as that's the spot where some work/interaction was required by the user. You may have not tightened the screw enough, or had some insulation pressed between the contact/screw reducing the area where current flows through, or you may have cut off some strands by accident. All reduce the gauge which means more current flows through a small area which in turn generates heat. 99% of the time it's user error like this I'm afraid.

As long as the plug was inserted and turned (locked) it's almost impossible that it be a failure on the receptacle <-> plug connection as they are manufactured to be somewhat foolproof to ensure good spade to plug connectivity.

It may be too late, but it would be interesting to see how the wires on the back sides of the plug and receptacle were done.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll point out too that both the plug and the receptacle have 3 connection points: 2 HOT and 1 GROUND. The two HOT spades carry equal amounts of current as current flows between the two. So they both see exactly the same amount of flow, but only one melted which means that the connection on one side was ok while the other (melted) side was poor. As mentioned previously, 99% of the time this from a wire being improperly attached to the plug or receptacle.

It can be part failure too but that's extremely rare.

It can also happen if connection points get dirty but yours look clean.

Kal

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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the HLT, it hasn't been touch or been a problem.



Here is the wires from BK side. Wire strands are clean for the most part. I don't recall if they were all clamped in really well or not.

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wires in the panel are not heat damaged so my guess is that the poor connection was on the plug side.

I’m assuming both the panel and the heating elements were ones you built yourself?

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
So wires in the panel are not heat damaged so my guess is that the poor connection was on the plug side.

I’m assuming both the panel and the heating elements were ones you built yourself?

Kal
That's good. I'm replacing them both now anyways. The panel was prebuilt. The elements were from a kit.
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m confused - you mentioned above that the plug and receptacle were Amazon sourced.

Kal

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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I’m confused - you mentioned above that the plug and receptacle were Amazon sourced.

Kal
Sorry, bad use of words on my part. That was the only place I could find the exact parts used. It was so anyone could look up the parts easier.
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries! Some cheaper made receptacles and plugs don't have as resilient wire locking connections that make it more difficult to get a nice tight fitting. Better ones tend to have plates that crimp down evenly and won't get loose over time.

I recommend:

Plug: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/NEMA-L6-30-250VAC-30A-twist-lock-electrical-plug
Receptacle: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/NEMA-L6-30-250VAC-30A-twist-lock-electrical-female-receptacle

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
No worries! Some cheaper made receptacles and plugs don't have as resilient wire locking connections that make it more difficult to get a nice tight fitting. Better ones tend to have plates that crimp down evenly and won't get loose over time.

I recommend:

Plug: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/NEMA-L6-30-250VAC-30A-twist-lock-electrical-plug
Receptacle: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/NEMA-L6-30-250VAC-30A-twist-lock-electrical-female-receptacle

Cheers!

Kal
Thanks. I use your recommendations. Somethings are worth the extra money.
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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an update. I had several kegs in the waiting, so I haven't needed to brew for a bit. Now that it's time again, I finally ordered the parts Kal recommended. Repair and test went well, but it appears it was the wiring on the plug itself. Well, that's how it looks to me. That area got way hotter than the flange or prongs. Here is some pictures of after I opened up to old plug to remove it.





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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely looks to be the heating element cord side. You mentioned the heating elements were from a kit so likely you may have not tightened the screw enough, or had some insulation pressed between the contact/screw reducing the area where current flows through, or you may have cut off some strands by accident.

Speaking of cutting off strands, looking at this pic of inside the panel again that you posted earlier:



It would appear that some of the strands were accidentally cut on the black wire. I'd be careful with this. This was a pre-assembled panel bought elsewhere?

Kal

_________________
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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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