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Sour mash. Can the pumps handle 48 hours?

 
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18DPA




Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 135
Location: Kuwait


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:37 pm    Post subject: Sour mash. Can the pumps handle 48 hours? Reply with quote


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I am looking to do a sour mash. I need to hold a constant 100 degrees (F) and our systems would be perfect for this. I have read a ton on this and have tried souring during fermentation and its a PIA as well as 3 failures. I'd like to try a sour mash where you get the desired acidity and then boil it to kill the bacteria. The lactic acid stays in the beer and you can hop as usual.

My two ideas are

1. Vorlof into the boil kettle, let it cool to around 100 degrees and just let it sit at 100 with the added bacteria for about 48 hours. but I'm worried because the static temp probe won't read that correctly and it may kick on the element too much or too hot and kill the bacteria. Pro is less moving parts.

2. The more traditional method is to sour it in the mash but I'm worried about the March pump running and circulating the cooler than normal mash through the coil at 100 degrees for 48 hours without clogging or burning out the pump.

I'm doing a Berliner weisse this time just in case keeping the OG way down because the traditional ABV are like 2.5-3.5. That should keep the sugar content low and not so gummy if I do a true sour mash.

Thoughts?

Kal from a mechanical stand point will the system do it?

Thanks
Micah

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To comment on the 2 options:

1. If the boil kettle temp probe is submerged in the liquid it'll read correctly. Just set the boil PID to automatic and set to 100F. It'll hold. Convection currents when the element kicks on will ensure that the liquid stirs itself.

2. If you're using the March pumps I recommend (see here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/pumps), this is a tough little pump that is designed to be run continuously. No issues. It has thermal shutdown/protection too. I don't see any issues. Just don't mill too fine. 0.050" mill gap should be fine.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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jcav




Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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Location: Central Florida


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The March pumps can take it no problem. There is a thread on HBT where Walter who works for March pumps answers everyone's questions. If I remember correctly he talks about a March pump that ran continuously for 11 years and the owner just oiled it regularly. I think another person chimed in about how their pump ran for like 17 years. So 48 hours should be a breeze.

John

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18DPA




Joined: 14 Nov 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal thanks for the info. Big vote of confidence. I'll update this when I get around to doing it. Hoping tomorrow after work. This weekend's brew day fell apart.

Jack: Walt is a great guy He got me my beefed up versions of Kal's recommended pumps. Super nice guy.

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kal
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Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup - I've been following that thread on HBT. Walter's support was one of the big reasons I went with (and recommend) March pumps. They are tried, true, and tested... built to last.

Kal

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18DPA




Joined: 14 Nov 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best part is that Walt doesn't even drink beer!!! He hooked me up royally with my pumps and I offered to send him beer and he declined saying he doesn't drink.
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jcav




Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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Location: Central Florida


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Walt's a great guy and has answered so many of our questions. Because of that thread and his advice I upgraded to the larger impellers and put on new thrust washers on both my 809's, and essentially made them into the higher flow/stronger 815 model.
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18DPA




Joined: 14 Nov 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got the mash down to 105 degrees and pitched 10 oz of Nancy's unflavored organic non pasteurized yogurt straight into the mash. (Left hand milk yucky berliner weise?) Pumps running with temp set at 105. Lets see what it does. pH 5.2 using my trusty Hanna pH meter (Thanks Kal)

Related articles:

http://www.newschoolbeer.com/2015/06/how-kettle-souring-is-making-sour-beer-cheap-and-affordable.html

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alternative_Bacteria_Sources

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2014/09/lemon-berliner-weisse-recipe.html

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18DPA




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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

24 hours into sour mash. 106 degrees constant thanks to the system. It smells buttery and sweet. Tastes a tiny bit sour but crazy sweet but not malty sweet it's citrus sweet. Starting pH was 5.8 and now it's 3.8.
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18DPA




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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mash is down to 3.38 and tastes like lactic acid. Time to mash out and boil!!! Good stuff
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kal
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Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool! I knew the pumps/system would be able to handle this... I hope the beer turns out ok!

Kal

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18DPA




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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts exactly!! They did great. I know all of us and you probably get really in tune with the sound they make as they run. When flow isn't normal they change pitch. They just hummed along for the last 36 hours.
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Ben58




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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a run like that, I will recommend a drop of oil for each end of the motor.
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kal
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Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben58 wrote:
After a run like that, I will recommend a drop of oil for each end of the motor.

Nah, that's light duty for a March pump. Take a look here for a direct quote from the manual as to how often to oil:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/parts-list-using?page=17

Kal

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18DPA




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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea I talked to Walter and he just laughed agreeing with Kal just said. He said he's got the very model he built for me in their test lab tuning for 13 years. Mine is ball bearing and doesn't require lube. He said it's never been turned off except power outages.
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jcrazy84




Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you mashout and then let the temp fall to 105? Did you do the sour mash in the mash tun or did you move it off the grain into the boil kettle? Did you sparge at all? I am gearing up to do this, so I was wondering.
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18DPA




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PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a normal mash for 90 min. Then I turned the system off with it all sitting in the mash tun. It took about 6 hours with a fan blowing ambient 75 degree air around the system to cool.

Once it was down to about 110 I put 10 oz of Nancy's greek yogurt into it and stirred it up. All in the mash tun. Turned the pumps back on with temp set at 105 and just let it go. I had to add about a gallon of water after the grain swelled.

I kept checking the pH regularly and when it dropped to what I wanted and also to taste I kicked it up to 170 to mash out and also get the sugars less viscous. Sparged into the boil kettle like normal and did the rest like normal.

Just racked from my primary to the secondary and the sample I took was drinkable with no off flavors. I'm going to give it about 3 weeks and keg it but I was really happy with it at only a week. Its a little on the sour side for a Berliner Weisse but I like the funk and wanted it strong.


I'll do a better write up tonight when I'm not at work with my notes.

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perogi




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PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this was quite a while ago but I'm itching to brew a weiss/gose. How did it come out?
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18DPA




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PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine did fine. 3 batches. 2 really good sours and one that never fermented. pH probably way to acidic for the yeast. Pumps took it fine.

Walter at March said they have a couple that have run non stop except power outages for 7 years.

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