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HopSteady
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 36
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 Link Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have disregarded that thought and decided to wire it all with 3-phase 30A industrial plugs  .
Regarding the elements - yes ideally I use 3-phase SSD's and 3-phase heating elements as this distributes the load on the electrical panel evenly and so minimises currents - the wiring is not very difficult. The issue with the 3-phase elements is that they have the large 1.5" thread diameter and I want to use those 2" tri-clamp adapters (in order to make the heating elements removable) which only work with 1" thread diameters commonly found on single phase elements. Still looking around for a 3 phase element with a 1" thread.
If I did not have this constraint then it would be a no-brainer and I would go for 3-phase elements.
So the plan right now is to use phase 1 for a single phase element, phase 2 for a second single phase element, and then phase 3 for the pumps and rest of the panel.
P.s. not all european 3-phase connections are 230v star/wye with 400v between phases. Here in Belgium I am still on the older system of 3-phase 230v without a neutral (delta).
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barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 46
Location: Linköping, Sweden
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| Link Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| HopSteady wrote: |
P.s. not all european 3-phase connections are 230v star/wye with 400v between phases. Here in Belgium I am still on the older system of 3-phase 230v without a neutral (delta). |
I think "wye" and "delta" strictly speaking describes how elements etc. are wired not how the power is distributed to the consumers.
If you think of great amount of odd beer styles you can find only in Belgium and not anywhere else it is no surprise that Belgium has the same odd distributionsystem for electric power as Norway and Albania. 
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andrzejk2
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Lubin, Poland
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: |
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This is my diagram to power heaters (BK or HLT).
Voltage Ua=Ub=Uc=230V (Y-connection), current pro phase ca. 25A, power for Camco heater 5500W (total 16500W).
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barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 46
Location: Linköping, Sweden
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| Link Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| andrzejk2 wrote: | current pro phase ca. 25A, power for Camco heater 5500W (total 16500W).
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Do you really have 3-phase outlets in homes (house or apartment) with 25A per phase i Poland? My biggest circuitbreakers (I live in an apartment in Sweden) is 16A for each phase (for the stove in the kitchen that runs on 400V). The main circuitbreaker for the apartment is also 3x16A.
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andrzejk2
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Lubin, Poland
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| Link Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I have in my house 3-phase outlets with 25A per phase. Exactly in the boiler room, where my home brewery is located. 
Visible control panel is only on one phase. Now I will be constructing a 3-phase one for my new herms.
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barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 46
Location: Linköping, Sweden
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Is it a CEE 230/400V 32A outlet (with a plug inserted) you are pointing at? This is rated max. 32A per phase. The alternatives could be a 16A or a 63A.
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andrzejk2
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Lubin, Poland
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Corrected photo below.
Here is my experimental wiring diagram.
This can just leave or convert to 50A back to back setup. Then naturally you need at input 50A for the phase.
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| andrzejk2 wrote: |
This can just leave or convert to 50A back to back setup. Then naturally you need at input 50A for the phase. |
andrzejk2,
Could we get some more photo's of your brewery? I would like to see inside your BK and HLT.
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andrzejk2
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Lubin, Poland
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, thanks. I was confused. I thought you were using three elements in your BK and HLT.
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andrzejk2
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Lubin, Poland
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barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 46
Location: Linköping, Sweden
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| Link Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| andrzejk2 wrote: |
This can just leave or convert to 50A back to back setup. Then naturally you need at input 50A for the phase. |
? I cannot figure out what you mean with this.
Well, in Europe we got 3-phase 230/400V and that give us enough power without fat wires and 50A back to back setups.
In your example you can wire your elements in the HLT delta (3x400V) instead of wye (3x230V) . No changes in the controlbox or thicker wires are needed. But you cannot use three elements which are 25A / 230V. They will be 43A /400V. Maximum with 32A circuitbreakers and delta-wiring is 3x18,5A/230V-elements when wye-wired. You don´t have to worry about the higher watt density because you are only heating water in the HLT.
An interesting alternative to the Auber SYL-2352 PID for mash and HLT - especially when using HERMS - is Auber SWA-2451 (I have got that). It is a PID with a built-in timer. It can be used integrated with the temp-control or separated in various ways. For example you can set a time and temperature - so the timer begins to count down (or up) when the set temperature is reached and the alarm buzzes when the set time is reached. It is easier to use than a PID with ramp/soak-function.
A better alternative than the SYL-2352 for the boiler is in my opinion Auber EZBoil (DSPR120). It can handle the power for boiling process in a more intelligent and automated way than a PID. It also have a mashing function that can be used for hop rests in a boiler. You can use the same SSR.
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andrzejk2
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Lubin, Poland
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| Link Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| barney the bear wrote: | | andrzejk2 wrote: |
This can just leave or convert to 50A back to back setup. Then naturally you need at input 50A for the phase. |
? I cannot figure out what you mean with this. |
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25793
One batch brewed immediately after another. All 6 heaters switched at the same time.
| barney the bear wrote: |
Well, in Europe we got 3-phase 230/400V and that give us enough power without fat wires and 50A back to back setups.
In your example you can wire your elements in the HLT delta (3x400V) instead of wye (3x230V) . No changes in the controlbox or thicker wires are needed. But you cannot use three elements which are 25A / 230V. They will be 43A /400V. Maximum with 32A circuitbreakers and delta-wiring is 3x18,5A/230V-elements when wye-wired. You don´t have to worry about the higher watt density because you are only heating water in the HLT.
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I have only 25A protection pro phase and 6 element camco 5500W for only 230V, not 400V. In fact, for hlt I could maybe buy a new heater and I could use 3x400V.
| barney the bear wrote: |
An interesting alternative to the Auber SYL-2352 PID for mash and HLT - especially when using HERMS - is Auber SWA-2451 (I have got that). It is a PID with a built-in timer. It can be used integrated with the temp-control or separated in various ways. For example you can set a time and temperature - so the timer begins to count down (or up) when the set temperature is reached and the alarm buzzes when the set time is reached. It is easier to use than a PID with ramp/soak-function.
A better alternative than the SYL-2352 for the boiler is in my opinion Auber EZBoil (DSPR120). It can handle the power for boiling process in a more intelligent and automated way than a PID. It also have a mashing function that can be used for hop rests in a boiler. You can use the same SSR. |
This diagram is only for demonstration.
My new timer is Sestos B3S-2R-220 and my new pid's are Sestos D1S-VR-220.
My question is not whether the diagram can be improved (pid's), but whether the diagram is generally correct?
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barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 46
Location: Linköping, Sweden
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| Link Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| andrzejk2 wrote: |
This diagram is only for demonstration.
My new timer is Sestos B3S-2R-220 and my new pid's are Sestos D1S-VR-220.
My question is not whether the diagram can be improved (pid's), but whether the diagram is generally correct? |
It looks correct to me
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andrzejk2
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Lubin, Poland
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11120
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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