Return to TheElectricBrewery.com
  [ Shop ]   [ Building ]   [ Using ]   [ Recipes ]   [ Testimonials ]   [ Gallery ]   [ FAQ ]   [ About Us ]   [ Contact Us ]   [ Newsletter ]

Log inLog in   RegisterRegister   User Control PanelUser Control Panel   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   MembershipClub Memberships   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums   Forum FAQForum FAQ

Sparging into outlet ball valve on boil kettle?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Using Your Brewery
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
siestakey



Joined: 10 Mar 2017
Posts: 49



PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Sparging into outlet ball valve on boil kettle? Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
I came across this setup on HBT (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/boil-kettle-condenser-no-overhead-ventilation-needed.636955/) and I'm thinking about giving it a whirl. Would it be possible to hook up the outlet on the MLT to the outlet of the BK (instead of draping it over the kettle sidewall) so I can keep the lid on and turn the element on before sparging ends to try and cut a little time off brew day? Any downsides anyone sees?
Back to top
cmkopp11



Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Posts: 19
Location: San Diego


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was my plan. Except I'm using a whirlpool inlet to add water to the boil kettle.
Back to top
siestakey



Joined: 10 Mar 2017
Posts: 49



PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh good call! I totally forgot I have a whirlpool valve to be installed! I'm hoping to be able to brew with the condenser and keep the heat and humidity down. Sounds like this might be a reality.
Back to top
LGarby



Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 68



PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal has mentioned that you can do that no problem but that it is harder to determine the flow into the BK and to match the flow coming from the HLT to the MLT.
Back to top
wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you have a really large kettle, or are sparging very fast, the element can heat much faster than the sparge water can have much effect on the heatup rate. I always start heating as soon as the boil kettel elements are covered. I just set the temperature to 190 so it doesn't start to boil too early. Once I'm near the end of the sparge, I crank the elements up and it's close to boiling by the time I have collected the full volume.
_________________
Kal clone controller, 30 gallon Spike Brewing kettles, 6 tap keezer
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10288
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what the boil kettle condenser idea you linked to has to do with with filling the BK from the outlet. Are these not two separate ideas/questions?

I have no comments on the boil kettle condenser but for filling the BK from the outlet, sure, you can do that. It won't save any time however as you can turn on the element as soon as it's covered regardless of how you're filling the kettle (either from the output valve, or through a hose draped across the top). Draping across the top may be inherently more dangerous however, as you'd need to make sure to not have the silicone hose touch the heating element (assuming you're using silicone).

As for why I drape over the side, I do that so that samples can be taken. You can't do that as easily if you go through the output valve as you have to close the valve, disconnect, take a sample, reconnect, open the valve.

More info in the SPARGE step of my BREW DAY STEP BY STEP GUIDE here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step?page=8

Cheers!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10288
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LGarby wrote:
Kal has mentioned that you can do that no problem but that it is harder to determine the flow into the BK and to match the flow coming from the HLT to the MLT.

Good point - forgot about that. I set the WORT pump flow rate to get the amount of trickle I want into the BK.

Then I use a binder clip on the MLT sight glass to set the WATER pump rate to match:



To match pump rates watch the clip in the first few minutes of sparging. If the water level moves up or down over these few minutes, adjust the WATER pump valve (only) slightly to compensate. Leave the WORT pump alone as you set that initially. It takes me about 5 minutes to match rates at the beginning of the sparge.

I like not not using an automatically regulated sparging system (such as the Blichmann 'Auto Sparge') as there is less chance of clogs, less parts to clean, etc.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
dp Brewing Company



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 659
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Black Sheep NEIPA, Rye Not Today, Kick of the Irish

Working on: RIS Barrel Aged


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the whirlpool in to fill up my boil kettle. Seems to work great. I was always worried about the hose slipping out of the boil kettle if I just hung it over the edge. I had that happen to me once back when I had a gravity system. The hose came out of the mash tun cooler and sprayed me with 170 degree water. That wasn't fun and a few choice words were spoken.
_________________
Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
Back to top
View user's photo album (3 photos)
wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dp Brewing Company wrote:
I use the whirlpool in to fill up my boil kettle. Seems to work great. I was always worried about the hose slipping out of the boil kettle if I just hung it over the edge. I had that happen to me once back when I had a gravity system. The hose came out of the mash tun cooler and sprayed me with 170 degree water. That wasn't fun and a few choice words were spoken.


I use a cheap spring clamp to make sure that doesn't happen. https://www.amazon.com/EACHPOLE-Improvement-Projects-Photography-APL1766/dp/B074XHPK85/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1521060854&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=spring+clamp&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkId=b0f4632ee1c575554b87c53f7ccb2b28

_________________
Kal clone controller, 30 gallon Spike Brewing kettles, 6 tap keezer
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10288
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dp Brewing Company wrote:
I was always worried about the hose slipping out of the boil kettle if I just hung it over the edge. I had that happen to me once back when I had a gravity system.

This concern is one of the reasons I built my hoses the way I did: With 2 parts on each end as it makes the ends about twice as heavy:



Parts:

(A) Stainless steel female quick disconnect 1/2" MPT: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Stainless-steel-female-quick-disconnect-1-2-MPT

(B) Stainless steel 1/2" barb x 1/2" FPT fitting: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Stainless-steel-1-2-FPT-x-1-2-barb-fitting

(C) Stainless steel smooth-band worm-drive hose clamp (5/8" to 1-1/16" clamp diameter range): http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Stainless-steel-smooth-band-worm-drive-hose-clamp-5-8-to-1-1-16-clamp-diameter-range

(D) High temperature food-grade silicone tubing (1/2" ID 7/8" OD): http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/High-temperature-food-grade-silicone-tubing-1-2-ID-3-4-7-8-OD

Instead of just using this:


Link: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Stainless-Steel-Female-Quick-Disconnect-x-1-2-Barb

Also heavier for filling fermenters.

More info: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hoses

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
siestakey



Joined: 10 Mar 2017
Posts: 49



PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I'm not sure what the boil kettle condenser idea you linked to has to do with with filling the BK from the outlet. Are these not two separate ideas/questions?


My point here was that I would have the lid on, so I wouldn't be able to drape the hose over the side without steam escaping. I could leave the lid off and fill probably just fine, but once the wort covers the heating element I would want to turn it on to save some time, thus needing to keep the lid on and have the condenser going during the later stages of the fill. This is why I was wondering if I could fill via the outlet - so I can keep the lid on the entire time during the fill.

Sorry it all makes sense upstairs but turns into nonsense when I write it all out. I hope this helps clarify my question.
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10288
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

siestakey wrote:
My point here was that I would have the lid on, so I wouldn't be able to drape the hose over the side without steam escaping.

Ah! Gotcha!

Quote:
This is why I was wondering if I could fill via the outlet - so I can keep the lid on the entire time during the fill.

Yup. You can definitely do that. Really up to you. Good luck!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

siestakey wrote:
kal wrote:
I'm not sure what the boil kettle condenser idea you linked to has to do with with filling the BK from the outlet. Are these not two separate ideas/questions?


My point here was that I would have the lid on, so I wouldn't be able to drape the hose over the side without steam escaping. I could leave the lid off and fill probably just fine, but once the wort covers the heating element I would want to turn it on to save some time, thus needing to keep the lid on and have the condenser going during the later stages of the fill. This is why I was wondering if I could fill via the outlet - so I can keep the lid on the entire time during the fill.

Sorry it all makes sense upstairs but turns into nonsense when I write it all out. I hope this helps clarify my question.


You CAN do it that way, but not completely necessary. I don't think you will need a condenser during sparge/lauter and the lid won't make a huge difference unless you start boiling before you finish collecting the full volume (which is not at all recommended). As I stated, the elements can generally heat much faster than you can collect the wort if you're doing at least a 60 minute sparge. There is nothing wrong with doing it the way you stated, but it isn't absolutely necessary either. I have almost 200 brew sessions in with this system and the only time I put a lid on the boil kettle is when I'm doing a kettle rest before whirlpool.

_________________
Kal clone controller, 30 gallon Spike Brewing kettles, 6 tap keezer
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10288
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wscottcross wrote:
I have almost 200 brew sessions in with this system and the only time I put a lid on the boil kettle is when I'm doing a kettle rest before whirlpool.

I use the lid in a similar way (with hop stands for beers that call for one) but another way I use the lid almost every brew is when I'm heating up to boil: I put the lid on, and set the boil PID to 208F and turn on the alarm (also set to 208F). It heats up faster with the lid on, and will get to 208F and hold without boiling. The alarm then goes off. I then take the lid off, go to manual 100% power and watch/stir to avoid boilovers.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
wscottcross



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 219
Location: CT

Drinking: Launch IPA, Double Sunshine clone, Maple Coffee breakfast stout

Working on: expanding my beer horizons (and my beltline)


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
wscottcross wrote:
I have almost 200 brew sessions in with this system and the only time I put a lid on the boil kettle is when I'm doing a kettle rest before whirlpool.

I use the lid in a similar way (with hop stands for beers that call for one) but another way I use the lid almost every brew is when I'm heating up to boil: I put the lid on, and set the boil PID to 208F and turn on the alarm (also set to 208F). It heats up faster with the lid on, and will get to 208F and hold without boiling. The alarm then goes off. I then take the lid off, go to manual 100% power and watch/stir to avoid boilovers.

Kal


I'm sort of similar to that. I have a 50A setup with 2 boil kettle elements in my 50 gallon kettle and I'll set it for 198F on the one element and 50% power on the other (I swap cables from HLT to Boil2). It holds 198F and ramps up in under 10 minutes when I go to 100% on both elements. To maintain boil with 45 gallons I end up with one element set to 80% and the other set to 76%. The difference being that I don't bother with the lid as the layer of foop seems to hold the heat quite well. I then have to scoop quite a bit to prevent boilover since I'm at 90% capacity of the kettle. Once at a solid rolling boil, it's not a problem.

_________________
Kal clone controller, 30 gallon Spike Brewing kettles, 6 tap keezer
Back to top
siestakey



Joined: 10 Mar 2017
Posts: 49



PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going for the "lid on" scenario since I don't have an exhaust hood. I was hoping to be able to get away with the condenser and an exhaust fan in the window. The results from that thread seem to be like it's possible to do this. I moved into a new place recently and the brew area is in about the worst possible space for an exhaust hood but the previous owner already had the plumbing run to this area. If the condenser doesn't work and/or the heat build up is an issue I'm just going to bite the bullet and get the hood. I'm just trying to avoid punching holes in the ceiling unless I have to.
Back to top
rcrabb22



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 461
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal said:
Quote:
As for why I drape over the side, I do that so that samples can be taken. You can't do that as easily if you go through the output valve as you have to close the valve, disconnect, take a sample, reconnect, open the valve.


I use the BK output valve to fill it during the sparge.

I use a refractometer for pre boil so my samples are gathered using a tablespoon after the first gallon or so for first runnings and then when the sparge is finished for pre boil measurement.

I sparge to meet my pre boil volume so any measurements I do will not determine when I stop the sparge.

I use my hydrometer for post boil O.G determination but I have compared my readings to my refractometer and I haven't found the difference (if any) significant. I am too cheap to buy a digital hydrometer so sighting the SG reading on the glass tube is not as accurate as it could be anyway.
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10288
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, London Pride, Weizen, Citra DIPA, Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, but what you canít do easily is take gravity readings of the wort coming in at that specific time to see how low it has dropped so that you know when to stop sparging to avoid excess tannin extraction. To do that you need to sample from the hose end, not the mixed kettle wort.

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (21 photos)
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    TheElectricBrewery.com Forum Index -> Using Your Brewery All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Support our site by purchasing through this link. We thank you!

Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group