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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: Sustainable Brewing in the Year 2018 |
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The buzz word for millennials is "sustainability". Having two millennial sons, I wanted to impress them with the art of sustainable homebrewing. One tried and true method is to wash and reuse yeast for several generations. One other might be during the fermentation process using organic CO2 for secondary purging in an oxygen-free environment.
Does anyone have any other suggestions or improvements?
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701pilot
Joined: 10 May 2016 Posts: 50 Location: northern california
Drinking: Bohemian Pilsner,Caribou Slobber, Munich Helles, Weissbier, Black Bute Porter, RIS, Irish Red Ale
Working on: Milk Chocolate Stout
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Link Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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My brewing is sustainable as long as the social security checks keep showing up.
_________________ Mark
I can't change the laws of physics but with enough horse power I can chase it into submission.
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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yep for me it's still paychecks...
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I like your thought process with purging the secondary. I have a conical so I do my secondary in the same vessel but I like your thinking.
_________________ Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think I need to reverse the CO2 arrows in step 2. Head space vacuum develops in primary fermenter that's filled with purge CO2 from the secondary. This and gravity drives beer to the secondary.
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David_H
Joined: 13 Nov 2013 Posts: 139 Location: Savannah, GA
Drinking: Dry Irish Stout, Electric Pale Ale, American Amber Ale, Irish Red Ale
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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This thread got me curious; does the fermentation of 5 gallons of beer produce enough CO2 to drive the carbonation and distribution of the same 5 gallons. I think it might be close.
A 5 gallon batch at 1.060 produces between 100-125 gallons of atmospheric CO2. Compressed to 10 psi that would result in 10-12 gallons at 10 psi. Using 2 vol/vol carbonation and assuming that only 5 gallons at 10 psi are required to push the beer, we need 60 gallons of atmospheric CO2. Therefore the process will produce almost twice the CO2 needed, Assuming 25% loss, it appears the process will generate about 25% (25 gallons at atmospheric pressure more than required. So it can be sustainable.
Now the problem is how to capture and compress the CO2 produced in fermentation.
Just thinking out loud (or more correctly in writing)
1 Vent the CO2 from the fermentation into a LARGE light-weight mylar bag. 125 gallons equals about 15 cu-ft; not really that big 2ft x 2ft x 4ft
2 Use an "air" compressor to store the gas at pressure.
I think it will take several batches to build up a sufficient volume of gas at pressure to be useful (or seed the system with purchased CO2)
Any thoughts? Seems like an awful lot of work to save the $20-$40 per year for purchased CO2
===== EDIT ======
I need to check the 100 gallons / 5 gallon batch.
===== EDIT ======
Assumptions / Conditions
Assume 19 L batch; 12P wort fermented to 9P; 75 percent attenuation
Fermentation generates 46% CO2; 1L CO2 = 1.96 g
Sugar grams = 9g/100g (9P) x 19L x 1000g = 1,710 g (3.77 lb)
CO2 grams = 1710 x 0.46 = 787 g
CO2 Liters = 787g / 1.96g/L = 402 L (106 gallons)
THEREFORE about assumption confirmed
_________________ David
Kal Clone Controller
20 gallon Spike Brewing 3-Kettle System
SS Brewtech 14 gallon fermenter w/ gycol chiller
4 tap keezer with Nitro Tap
Last edited by David_H on Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting David H. I agree it might be a lot of work at our level of brewing but might make sense for a large regional brewery (In my case Boulevard Brewing Company).
_________________ Visit dp Brewing Company
Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
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David_H
Joined: 13 Nov 2013 Posts: 139 Location: Savannah, GA
Drinking: Dry Irish Stout, Electric Pale Ale, American Amber Ale, Irish Red Ale
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Based on some recent reading the number I got was it becomes economically profitable at about 500,000 barrels per year. I am currently running at about 1 / 100,000 of that threshold.
_________________ David
Kal Clone Controller
20 gallon Spike Brewing 3-Kettle System
SS Brewtech 14 gallon fermenter w/ gycol chiller
4 tap keezer with Nitro Tap
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rcrabb22
Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 462 Location: Illinois
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I brew beer with city water. I drink the beer and produce waste water that goes through the sewer to the water sanitation plant. From there it goes through the river system to the Gulf of Mexico. It evaporates and is incorporated into a storm system that returns the water to the aquifer in my city.
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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outside energy is still required at the sanitation plant to process your waste - sorry, doesn't count -
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rcrabb22
Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 462 Location: Illinois
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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mjo2125 wrote: | outside energy is still required at the sanitation plant to process your waste - sorry, doesn't count - |
I'll drink on that and get back to you.....
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Ran a simple test with beer that I'm kegging. The flow is correct in the schematic below. Higher pressure secondary CO2 flows to fill the primary head space vacuum. This (and gravity) creates the motive force to move the beer to fill the secondary fermenter.
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Anchor Brewing's "Old Foghorn" Barleywine is carbonated naturally in a process known as "bunging" (also known as spunding). Bunging captures escaping CO2 during the fermentation process by capping the tank vent when fermentation is within 1% of completion. This is feasible given that barleywines require low carbonation levels for the style to begin with.
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JMD887
Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Posts: 120 Location: Akron, Ohio
Drinking: Two Hearted Ale
Working on: American Red IPA
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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701pilot wrote: | My brewing is sustainable as long as the social security checks keep showing up. |
I suppose I could substitute social security with pay check at this stage in my life!
Additionally, I've used spent grain as compost in my follower beds. I know many of the pros in my area given spent grain to bakeries / farms rather than pitching it. Great Lakes Brewing in Cleveland OH is real big on sustainable brewing.
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:42 am Post subject: |
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moved from the Cleveland area (Aurora) a few years ago - love the Great Lakes Brewmaster's Pie!
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GrumpyWally
Joined: 06 Mar 2015 Posts: 66 Location: San Diego, CA
Drinking: Schwarzbier, Tripwire Tripel, 2 Czech Dark Lagers, Wee Heavy
Working on: Tripwire Tripel, Roggenbier
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:50 am Post subject: |
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I live in San Diego and you may have noticed that water is a big issue here in California. I've read about local craft breweries having trouble getting enough water to stay in business during our last drought. I tend to use a lot of water-just for starters, Kal's instructions about letting the water run during wort chilling would probably be illegal here in California. Because the water here is so bad (San Diego is known for its IPAs for a reason), I use RO water, which is also pretty wasteful.
My wort chiller hose drains outside where I have an 80 gallon rain bucket to capture water from the most wasteful practices I just described.
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Yep it's a big challenge in drought-prone areas in the West. Hope you get some ideas from this forum. BTW, did you attend the BYO Brew Camp in San Diego this month?
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GrumpyWally
Joined: 06 Mar 2015 Posts: 66 Location: San Diego, CA
Drinking: Schwarzbier, Tripwire Tripel, 2 Czech Dark Lagers, Wee Heavy
Working on: Tripwire Tripel, Roggenbier
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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mjo2125 wrote: | BTW, did you attend the BYO Brew Camp in San Diego this month? |
No, didn't really even know there was one. Were you here?
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mjo2125
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 248 Location: Dayton, OH
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I was at the Indianapolis camp last November. Just wondering if the drought talk came up in the San Diego camp. There is an article in the March-April BYO Magazine regarding Wort Chilling - Quick Chill vs. No Chill. There are alternatives to water use for chilling - there is a chill method that uses ambient air as the heat exchange. There are potential pitfalls with the no-chill methods though.
This got me thinking - there is a "Brew Jacket" immersion device that uses solid state cooling to control fermentation.
https://www.brewjacket.com/immersion-design/
There could be a market for a similar device to chill hot wort w/o the need for water- the device could have a digital temp readout and digital original gravity sensor and readout. Good project for an entrepreneur...
In the category of unintended consequences - over the winter I tried cooling my boil kettle by burying it in a bank of snow (water hose was frozen). The snow immediately in contact with the hot kettle melted and created an air gap between the kettle and the surrounding snow. This gap actually insulated the kettle from cooling quickly - after several minutes I gave up and wound using an ice bath method. Now I know why eskimos built igloos - duh
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itsnotrequired
Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Posts: 177 Location: central wi
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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saving the hot waste water from chilling and use it while hot to wash dishes, take a bath, run the laundry, etc. if making your own ro water, you could capture the reject water from the ro membrane and water the plants or something like that.
not sure if these fit the mold of 'sustainable' but it is certainly less wasteful.
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