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autotune HLT pid

 
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hopster54



Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 189
Location: Vancouver, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: autotune HLT pid Reply with quote


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Finally have my 50amp B2B brew panel powered up and have a question on autotuning the HLT pid.

When auto tuning the HLT pid should i be recirculating MLT through herms coil while tuning HLT pid?

I ran the auto tune yesterday while recirculating the MLT through the herms coil and auto tune went on for over an hour and temp in HLT kept climbing up and up until it reached 197 degrees.

I finally shut the auto tune off as i'm not sure that the pid should take that long to learn the system, it appeared the temp kept rising and didn't appear to drop in temp at any point.

Should i be doing auto tune on the HLT pid without the MLT recirculating through the herms coil?

Thanks.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10597
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be recirculating per the instructions here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-setup

Make sure to follow the instructions exactly. Even when that's done, I've heard of rare cases where (for whatever reason) the PID doesn't appear to tune correctly. If that happens try again.

Kal

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hopster54



Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 189
Location: Vancouver, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Kal, i did exactly as per instructions and will try again.

I have now found a post that you reccomend auto tuning HLT pid as if you were actually brewing a batch.

Thx again Kal.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10597
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you try without auto-tuning first to see how it behaves? How much higher or lower than the set point was the HLT drifting?

From our instructions:

Quote:
The Hot Liquor Tank PID can be taught the heating and cooling characteristics of your setup and be tuned to provide more precise temperature control by performing an auto tune. This sets the P, I, and D values in the PID controller. In most cases the default values will work fine so we recommend that initially auto tuning be skipped. If after the first few uses you find that the Hot Liquor Tank temperature rises slightly higher or drops lower than the temperature you set, consider performing an auto tune.


If you want to try the defaults, see the PID manual to reset them.

Kal

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hopster54



Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 189
Location: Vancouver, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes i did heat up the HLT prior to trying the auto tune and the HLT pid was 10 degrees higher than set point, i filled the HLT to try auto tune again as i recirculate MLT and now have a major leak at the radius tri clover fitting for the heating element.

It appears my silver solder skills need upgrading.

Currently waiting to hear from a family member who knows a freind with a tig welder and i will take all the silver soldered fittings off, clean up all the areas and tig weld the fittings.

AND KAL, if i ever decide to build a 3 vessel system again i certainly will not go with soldered fittings. WHAT a PAIN in THE ASS after all the time i put into these kettles trying to save a few bucks.

Will update when i can get this done.

Best of the Holiday season.

T Y Kal.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10597
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hopster54 wrote:
Yes i did heat up the HLT prior to trying the auto tune and the HLT pid was 10 degrees higher than set point

Ok, forget about auto tune for now. somethingís really off if the PID is overheating to 10 degrees above set point if using tdefault PID settings. It shouldn't go more than a point or two over at most given how slowly things heat up (relatively speaking).

Can you tell us more about the setup? A few pictures or videos maybe? Youíre running the HLT pump all the time at full tilt? I would imagine thereís something really none standard going on. The system needs to behave in a stable manner before auto-tune can or should be done. Auto-tune canít fix system issues.

Kal

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hopster54



Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 189
Location: Vancouver, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally got my keggles welded and no more leaks, now another issue.

Brewed your Bohemian Pilsner yesterday, all went well, what a dream to use this Electric brewery.

I used the manual mode at 80% duty cycle yesterday, no problem, today I'm brewing a pale ale and the boil pid will not switch from auto to manual mode, when i go in to program and set the a-m to zero it switches back to 1 when i go to push a-m on pid to switch from auto to manual nothing happens except the auto icon goes out and pid not showing m icon.

Tried 5 times and still doing the same thing, i do notice that when i set pid to 0 in programing mode there is a flashing decimal point to the right of 0

What have done wrong Kal?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10597
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

Glad to hear you're enjoying the setup!

As for what you did wrong, I'm really not sure as I don't see how you have things set or what you're doing exactly. Maybe you changed a setting inadvertently. One thing I find odd is that you're going into the PID to change the A-M programming setting. You don't need to do that. It's a one time setting you set when you first set up your panel. After that you should never have to go into the programming settings again.

I would ensure all settings are set to their defaults (see the PID manual) then follow the settings that need to be changed here in the control panel setup steps: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-setup

After that, don't go in the programming settings again.

Good luck!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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