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Pressurized Fermentation

 
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OkieDokie




Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 191
Location: Oklahoma

Drinking: Electric ale, Weizen

Working on: Electric lager, American Amber Ale, Dirty Blonde


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject: Pressurized Fermentation Reply with quote


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Hi everyone. Saw in MoreBrew magazine that there is now a Cornical, a pressurized fermentation chamber that allows you to go right to serving or kegging without opening things up to oxygen. I believe their Unitank is even more advanced. So on the surface this seems like a win-win-win scenario, but I'm new to that idea of fermenting under pressure.

Could people chime in oaths topic and let me glean some knowledge from those who know a lot more about it, and is this a better mousetrap?

Thanks so much
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you mean this setup?: https://www.morebeer.com/products/cornical-full-system.html?a_aid=theelectricbrewery

If you're careful with transfers and purge target vessels with CO2, the benefits of a closed transfer are somewhat negated. If you're somewhat sloppy with transfers and tend to splash things around a lot, then completely closed transfers make a lot of sense as it'll reduce oxidation issues. While I could do closed transfers after a bunch of tests I don't bother as I've never bothered as I've never had issues with oxidation during transfers with a racking cane my "normal" way (target vessel purged, careful with disturbing CO2 layer in source vessel, no splashing, etc). I just find it simpler, but definitely nothing wrong with a 100% closed transfer.

Every time I post videos on Instagram about racking to kegs I get a TON of questions about how I do it, or comments that I'm completely ruining my beer. Wink More info in the comments in this video: https://www.instagram.com/p/BZz2pSPA7Rv/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery

To quote myself:

"Oxidation is not an issue if racking is done correctly. There's been an alarming belief amongst homebrewers over the last few years that if you don't do a closed transfer your beer will automatically horribly oxidized. This is simply not true. A closed transfer done properly (with purged vessels) is certainly a great way to guarantee that oxidation is minimized, but it's not a requirement."

" In my case the entire keg is first purged with CO2 and the transfer is done gently. I have this same beer on tap currently, kegged 6 weeks ago and it's still fantastic with zero hints of oxidation. If you have issues with oxidation I'd take a careful look at the process (i.e. not leaving beer in plastic containers for any length of time after fermentation is done, make sure to not disturb the blanket of CO2 in the fermenter, always purge the target vessel with CO2, rack gently without splashing while keeping the output below the liquid level, etc). Racking under pressure of CO2 works too, but it's definitely not a requirement. If it helps keep the beers fresh longer then by all means go with closed pressure transfer where everything is purged first. If you're careful and always purge vessels (even fermenters when opening after fermentation is done) then you'll be fine too. If you're in a windy area or seem to take forever to rack then closed transfer may be the best option. Good luck!"

"As a follow up, I see many post and/or recommend that to truly get out all of the air you'd need to fill the keg with water and then push it out with CO2 because CO2 mixes with air. That works but I wouldn't consider it an absolute requirement. It's (IMHO) going way overboard. I've tried both ways (since I always make 2 kegs) and after 1 month or two I notice no difference in my hoppy beers if I'm careful with racking. In a small open top vessel like this keg, flushing it with CO2 from the bottom (I use a hose) at an adequate pressure (anywhere from 10-20psi) will lower the oxygen content immensely. Yes, it will mix with the gasses already in the vessel, but gasses are also escaping out the top. Purge until the gasses coming out the top smell really acrid (that's CO2). This'll lower the oxygen content to to a negligible level in a very short time. You won't 100% of the oxygen out, but it's not necessary for the short ~2 min time you're racking. Then put the lid on, hook up the CO2, and burp the keg a few times just to be safe."

Now fermenting under pressure is a somewhat different beast, and the (perceived) benefits are different. This guy's done a lot of experiments around that that I've followed over the years: http://scottjanish.com/fermenting-dry-hopping-pressure/

What's MoreBrew magazine? Did you mean Brew Your Own?

Kal

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OkieDokie




Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 191
Location: Oklahoma

Drinking: Electric ale, Weizen

Working on: Electric lager, American Amber Ale, Dirty Blonde


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct Kal. I misspoke. That was the setup that I was talking about, and I meant MoreBeer catalog, not magazine. Your explanation is a good one. I haven't had any problems with my current procedure, but was curious if there was a better way, and a more accurate way to limit potential missteps in the brewing process.

Thanks again.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pressurized transfers (if done correctly) are definitely a good way to ensure zero oxygen pickup. If you're kind of sloppy with a 'regular' transfer it can ensure no contact with O2, but like I mentioned above I fear that many seem to think that it *must* be done to ensure no O2 pickup. That's simply not true.

Good luck!

Kal

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mtbr_brewer




Joined: 07 Nov 2016
Posts: 6
Location: Omaha, NE


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal,

To somewhat hijack the thread, I was curious about using a pressurized transfer to eliminate needing to get the brew bucket out of the ferm fridge? I also keep my fermentation fridges on the floor, and would love to eliminate the need to hoist my fermenters onto a table and disturb trub and hop debris. I don't currently have the brew bucket, but am between those and a conical fermenter. Will 1 - 2 psi of pressure be enough to get the beer up the 1 - 2' to the top of a corny?

-Mtbr_brewer
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure as I haven’t tried what you suggest - sorry!

Kal

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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtbr_brewer wrote:
Hey Kal,

To somewhat hijack the thread, I was curious about using a pressurized transfer to eliminate needing to get the brew bucket out of the ferm fridge? I also keep my fermentation fridges on the floor, and would love to eliminate the need to hoist my fermenters onto a table and disturb trub and hop debris. I don't currently have the brew bucket, but am between those and a conical fermenter. Will 1 - 2 psi of pressure be enough to get the beer up the 1 - 2' to the top of a corny?

-Mtbr_brewer


I set my regulator as low as possible (2-3 psi) and do a pressure transfer from my conical to the liquid side of my cornys. Works very well!

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Ozarks Mountain Brew




Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I set my regulator as low as possible (2-3 psi) and do a pressure transfer from my conical to the liquid side of my cornys. Works very well!


what hardware fittings and hose do you use for this, Ive been wanting to set one up

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mjo2125




Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 248
Location: Dayton, OH


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

check out short circuited brewers you tube on the fermentasaurus pressurized conical fermenter review - he's a fan of Kal's...
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