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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I remember looking into condensing systems about ~10 years ago when designing, but the amount of water used (and some other negatives) didn't make me consider it as (at the time) most commercial condensing systems worked a lot like the CFC we use to chill wort: You pass the steam through a coil that is cooled with running water. The amount of water used was enormous and there are also concerns with not boiling off enough on a poorly designed setup without enough flow. Commercial brewers using condensing system were doing so because they had to (for various reasons) and they were all saving the water too.
Misting or atomizing the water is an interesting concept that should greatly help reduce the amount of water used (I believe he mentions around 9 gallons per 60 mins of boil).
For what it's worth I do like to be able to boil hard completely unimpeded (lid off). Makes it easier to add hops too and whatever else. Makes cleaning easier too as there are less parts, less complexity, and so forth. I prefer to minimize the amount of 'things' in the boil kettle. (The exhaust isn't 100% water, so you do need to clean everything). While I have nothing scientific to back it up, I also feel a good hard boil with lid completely off produces a better beer, one that's more stable long-term too.
I can't say I've read the whole 8-page thread, but the science is certainly plausible, so condensing setups is something to consider if you really don't want a fan/make-up air setup and want to brew indoors.
He did mention in the thread having to cut the boil power way back to the point of reducing the boil-off rate by 50%. He's concerned about DMS because of this.
One thing I definitely wouldn't like is that heat isn't evacuated from the room if you don't have a fan. I love brewing in the winter when it's -20C (-4F) outside as the makeup air keeps the room in the mid 60's (F) which is comfortable. In the summer when it's 80F outside the room gets up to 85F or so which is warm.
Last but not least, I don't think you'll ever be able to catch/condense 100% of the steam (he talks about this too, about how the system leaks) so some form of evacuation may be required anyway, even if only a small amount. Where I live, in the winter this wouldn't be much of an issue as the house is dry, but in the summer with the A/C running the last thing I'd want to do is increase the amount of water in the air. The author's in Florida and wants to be able to brew in the garage with the doors closed to avoid bugs. It's a special case where you probably don't care about extra moisture in the air.
Certainly interesting to see people push the limits of brewing and experiment!
Kal
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Ozarks Mountain Brew
Joined: 22 May 2013 Posts: 737 Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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I see allot of big brewery pictures that look like the boil kettle is covered with a vent the sucks the steam out then a hatch to add hops, I wander if a person could use the same process in a smaller scale with a vacuum of some kind
_________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Ozarks Mountain Brew wrote: | I see allot of big brewery pictures that look like the boil kettle is covered with a vent the sucks the steam out then a hatch to add hops, I wander if a person could use the same process in a smaller scale with a vacuum of some kind |
Definitely. The question is however, to what benefit on a small scale?
When you see these giant 50bbl (or even 10bbl) setup with chimneys and manways to add hops or get at the kettles, they sort of have to have those things given the size. The size dictates that CIP (clean-in-place) will be used with special pumps and spray head and so forth, as nobody's going to attempt to clean something that size by hand.
What big breweries do is required because of the size of their setups, not because they want to. There simply isn't any other way to do certain things effectively when you get to certain sizes. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the right way or best to do things on a smaller scale. Often the requirements do not translate from large to small.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Ozarks Mountain Brew
Joined: 22 May 2013 Posts: 737 Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:54 am Post subject: |
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yes I would think a hinged top that tilts would work for a small scale but mostly curios about the steam and airflow needed and will it oxygenate the beer
_________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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