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skelley
Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Posts: 210 Location: brookfield, wisconsin
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Link Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: Hop stopper vs hop blocker |
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I am putting together my system as I type and was looking for some more input on the hop stopper vs blocker put out by blichmann. I have purchased the hop stopper but clogging seems to be an issue for many. I have read a number of posts but was wondering if any others have used the hop blocker, how well it worked and possibly even a comparison to the hop stopper. If anyone has other ideas that are superior to either of these I would love to know so I do not have to go through the clogging on my own.
Thanks
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jkilmer
Joined: 15 Feb 2012 Posts: 33 Location: Orlando,
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Link Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I have had a problem with the hop stopper at the end of transfer as well ! what actually happens as Kal has explained is that the siphon up the dip tube is lost due to the rate at which the wort can "filter" into the hop stopper. Basicly you drain/siphon all the wort out of hop stopper faster than it can filter INTO the stopper.
I have actually started to use boil bags to ease the cleanup process. I still use stopper in the BK as a secondary filter process for hot/cold break etc.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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My 2 cents from here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/boil-kettle?page=3
Quote: | Blichmann Engineering (the manufacturer of our BoilerMaker kettles) used to sell a boil filter screen for their kettles but brewers noted that it would often clog regardless of the amount of hops used. Today, their boil filter screen is no longer sold. Instead, Blichmann now offers a product called the HopBlocker that looks promising but seems it may have a few caveats for use in our setup: Before draining, the HopBlocker requires the brewer to whirlpool (quickly stir to form a funnel) at the end of the boil and then wait 15-20 minutes to ensure that as much hop and hot break material as possible settles in a cone at the bottom center of the kettle. This may work well with kettles that are heated by propane or natural gas burners from below, but it's likely that our electric heating element would impede the whirlpooling effect and possibly render the HopBlocker ineffective in our setup. Our Hop Stopper works remarkably well with no effort or waiting required so we have not considered replacing it with the Blichmann HopBlocker. |
I'd have to point out as well that the waiting 15-20 minutes is NOT something I want to do with my hop-forward beers. I often throw in a ton of flame out hops in my APAs/IPAs and then throw the lid on and start chilling immediately to lock in the free hop goodness. I don't want them to steep in near-boiling wort for 15-20 minutes!
I made a West Coast IPA wit lots of flameout hops last week and was able to get the first ~80% of the wort chilled in about 3-5 minutes (great cold ground water) through the CFC.
As posted above, you need to slow the flow rate right down to a trickle at the end once the hop stopper gets exposed to air to avoid the inside draining faster than it fills. I usually tilt the boil kettle forward near the end to keep it submerged longer.
Kal
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Holter
Joined: 07 Oct 2011 Posts: 221 Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:32 am Post subject: |
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I don't use either of the options. I whirlpool my kettle which puts the majority of the trub in the center and all of the leftover hop particles in a nice neat pile in the center. Once the whirlpool is done I just let the wort drain directly out into the fermenter and all is well. I hadn't thought about using the blichmann blocker, but I don't think you need it if you whirlpool. A little Trub isn't a bad thing. I messed up my whirlpool for a IIPA I did recently and ended up with a boatload of trub in the beer, tastes great!
You cannot use whole hops with my system though as it will clog up.
Kal-
If you chilled the wort while whirl pooling you wouldn't have an issue with your late hop additions. I fill the HLT with 60 degree ground water and pump the wort through the Herms coil. 5 minutes into the whirlpool the whole kettle volume is under 140 degrees, minimizing isomerization and ruling out DMS.
Holter
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skelley
Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Posts: 210 Location: brookfield, wisconsin
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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how do you whirlpool as I hear many talk of it. does the heating element get in the way. I know I have read posts suggesting that the hop blocker gets in the way. Does the whirlpooling also adequately oxygenate your wort?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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skelley
Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Posts: 210 Location: brookfield, wisconsin
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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So you send hot wort through CFC directly to fermentation vessel and then oxygenate at that point? Do you ever recirculate into the boil kettle?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Holter
Joined: 07 Oct 2011 Posts: 221 Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:57 am Post subject: |
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skelley wrote: | how do you whirlpool as I hear many talk of it. does the heating element get in the way. I know I have read posts suggesting that the hop blocker gets in the way. Does the whirlpooling also adequately oxygenate your wort? |
I have two ball valves in my kettle. One is the output and the other is the input. I send the output through the Herms coil in my HLT and then back to the kettle. This way my entire volume is chilled down at the same pace. I used to use a therminator without whirlpooling but it always drove me crazy to have the full volume of wort sitting at nearly boiling temps while I drained my kettle. It took about 10 minutes, but it still drive me crazy.
I only oxygenate my wort once it's cooled down and in the fermenters. I tried to oxygenate it while draining with an inline stone, but I couldn't really tell how much oxygen I was adding to the wort with any real certainty, so moving forward I am going to just put an oxygen stone in the fermenter and do it that way.
Like Kal said, never when hot.
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LABeerFan.com
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rmessick
Joined: 20 Feb 2011 Posts: 123 Location: Turners Falls, MA
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Great idea, Holter! That is very similar to the effect of the "Jamil chiller", where an immersion chiller is used, but a pump recirculates the wort from the BK directly onto the coils of the immersion chiller. I use a Jamil chiller set up in my system (using keggle as BK), and can typically get 5 gallons of wort from boiling to 140 F in less than 3 minutes (using ground temp water), and down to 68 F in about 10 minutes.
I have been toying with the idea of incorporating a coil that would serve as a Jamil-type chiller in my Kal clone BK, but I think you have the solution by using the HLT coil.
-Dick
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JimS
Joined: 12 Aug 2016 Posts: 2 Location: Chicago
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Link Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:32 pm Post subject: Whirlpool with Hop Stopper? |
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Hello,
Would you worry about whirl-pooling if using the Hop Stopper product? It seems that sending the trub to the center would be counter productive in this case.
Thanks,
Jim
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itsnotrequired
Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Posts: 177 Location: central wi
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Link Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Whirlpool with Hop Stopper? |
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JimS wrote: | Hello,
Would you worry about whirl-pooling if using the Hop Stopper product? It seems that sending the trub to the center would be counter productive in this case.
Thanks,
Jim |
you do not want to whirlpool with a hop stopper, for the exact reason you mentioned. that's one nice feature of the hop stopper, you can start chilling immediately rather than wait for the whirlpool to center the hops.
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JayBo
Joined: 23 Oct 2016 Posts: 35
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Link Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have the spike brewing system, which has another tube for a whirlpool. I've had up to 8 oz of hops in the kettle and it does a great job at leaving a cone of junk in the middle.
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pinemarten
Joined: 14 Mar 2017 Posts: 7 Location: Boston, MA
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Link Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Tony Yates uses a Blichmann Hop Blocker with his Kal system and seems to get good results. You can see it in his BK in the video linked below.
https://youtu.be/HS13n8rJZ0Y?t=1128
I also use Spike kettles and echoing JayBo it does a nice job without any sort of hop filtering device. With the way Spike makes their dip tubes, I've struggled to figure out a good way to attach a screen the way Kal does while still getting the benefit of the side pickup tube on the interior ridge.
Something I've been pondering lately is if there is a significant downside to handling hop particulate outside of the kettle with a large funnel and filter. The funnel would need to be absolutely massive in order to not become clogged quickly. I've tried this with a fine mesh colander and had overflow issues almost immediately. In some of Tony's brew day videos, he drains through a colander and had no problems so the Hop Blocker is indeed catching at least some of the trub.
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rob6239
Joined: 14 May 2016 Posts: 18
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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pinemarten wrote: | Tony Yates uses a Blichmann Hop Blocker with his Kal system and seems to get good results. You can see it in his BK in the video linked below.
https://youtu.be/HS13n8rJZ0Y?t=1128
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must not work 100% as intended. just watched your linked video and his hose from boil kettle looks like its sitting in a metal strainer into a bucket. devices like hop blocker, stopper etc are supposed to eliminate the need for doo-dads like that strainer I thought
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jphussey
Joined: 17 Oct 2012 Posts: 171
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="kal"]My 2 cents from here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/boil-kettle?page=3
Quote: |
As posted above, you need to slow the flow rate right down to a trickle at the end once the hop stopper gets exposed to air to avoid the inside draining faster than it fills. I usually tilt the boil kettle forward near the end to keep it submerged longer.
Kal |
I saw somewhere else on this forum in one of the many hopstopper related threads you say something like your last 1-2 gallons takes 15-20 minutes. I was confused because my hopstopper is exposed at about 4 gallons I'd guess and so it takes me more like 45m-1hour to drain that at a slow trickle. Is the tilting forward trick how you keep the hopstopper submerged for longer?
Has there ever been a video posted for an appropriate flow?
-Jason
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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jphussey wrote: | kal wrote: | My 2 cents from here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/boil-kettle?page=3
As posted above, you need to slow the flow rate right down to a trickle at the end once the hop stopper gets exposed to air to avoid the inside draining faster than it fills. I usually tilt the boil kettle forward near the end to keep it submerged longer. |
Is the tilting forward trick how you keep the hopstopper submerged for longer? |
Yes. See the last sentence of mine that you quoted (in bold).
jphussey wrote: | Has there ever been a video posted for an appropriate flow? |
Keep it slow enough such that air doesn't get in by watching the silicone hose coming out of the boil kettle (a flashlight behind helps). If air's getting in, it's too fast. Close it to refill, and open slowly again. The flow rate will vary depending on how much gunk there is. There's no "one" right flow.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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