View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
rivetcatcher
Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 132 Location: Thailand
Drinking: Way Out Wheat - Mindcircus
Working on: Zombie Dust
|
Link Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Looking good. I did the same with the combined volt/ammeter. I also used the same type of receptacles only 32A for the supply and 16A for the pumps. I'm based in Thailand at the moment so its not as easy to get exactly the same parts as Kals version.
Only comment I would have is that I think you should change your socket to 32A. It also means installing a new supply socket and cable on your wall. Using a 3500W heating element means you will pull 15.90A with the element alone. Add to that the current from the pumps and control circuit and you are already above 16A.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 46 Location: Linköping, Sweden
|
Link Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
To Hambrau:
I can see you will use 3 500W induction plates (Hendi?). They have become popular here in Sweden too. I wonder how you control the temperature during mashing. I have followed the long thread on hobbybrauer.de about this. Can you actually use the PID:s in the electricbrewery-box for this purpose? And how?
And then - you ask persons not living in Germany/Europe and not familiar with the circumstances here and I think you will not get the correct answers every time.
Probably you will not have a 32A 1-phase 230V outlet in a home in Germany or Sweden but you can have 3-phase and 16A on each phase. You can modify for that but you do not need to change any of the the control functions in the box. You will use one phase on the control side on all relays/contactors but you can use different phases on the power side of the relays and the SSR connected to that relay. With two relays and two SSR:s you will then have 32A, two outlets - 16A each. But you must know what you are doing. You may not connect the hot side of the different phases to each other i this case (230V). But they all use the same neutral (there is only one).
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
hambräu
Joined: 07 Jun 2017 Posts: 7 Location: Hamburg - Germany
|
Link Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi, yes thats right, I use 3500W induktion heater. The Mash Temperatur will be cotrolled by an inkbird PID Temp controller.
Inkbird itc 100 Inkbird Dual Digitale Temperaturregler Thermostat Thermoelement PID Temperature Controller 220V ITC-100VH Mit 25A SSR Solid State Relais Mit K sensor https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00HVA23CK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_GruQzbGVTBD71
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 46 Location: Linköping, Sweden
|
Link Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The reason why I asked how you will control the induction plate is that you cannot just switch the AC-current for the plate on and off with a AC SSR controlled by a PID. Well, the plate will be switched on an off but will not like it in the end. The fans and the electronics in the plate will also be switched on and off very frequently.
The controlled plates mentioned i the german forum are hacked. The manual Hendis has a control unit with a turning nob that operates a potentiometer and an on/off-switch. The potentiometer varies a DC-current from 0 to 5V and this makes the effect to change. This unit is hacked and controlled in different ways by Arduinos, RasberryPi:s etc.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
hambräu
Joined: 07 Jun 2017 Posts: 7 Location: Hamburg - Germany
|
Link Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For the Mash I will use this manual hendi plate. Once reached my Mash Temp i.e. 68C it will not switched on and Off so often. I will see in tests and the use if it works like designed. Cheers, Hambräu
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 46 Location: Linköping, Sweden
|
Link Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: Re: FAQ: Adapting for 220-240V countries |
|
|
kal wrote: | FAQ: Adapting for 220-240V countries
I only have 3-phase 208V available. Can I use this panel?
Maybe. You may use use a single phase of the 208V 3-phase system instead of 240V as long NEUTRAL and GROUND are also available. Keep in mind that the heating elements are meant to be run at 240V so at 208V the power output will be reduced slightly. For example, the 5500W / 240V heating element will only output 4160W when powered with 208V.
Kal |
It is confusing to me that anybody in a 220-240V country ask this. You cannot find 208V three phase there. A more relevant question is:
"I have 3-phase 400V available. Can I use this panel?"
The voltage between two phases (hots) in a 208V three phase system is 208V. The voltage between one phase (hot) and neutral is 120V.
The voltage between two phases in a 400V system is 400V and between one phase and neutral 230V.
Some three phase mathematics here: If you multiply 120 with the square root of three you get 208 and if do the same with 230 you get 400.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
mtweeman
Joined: 10 Feb 2017 Posts: 29
|
Link Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would like to use 25A din rail contactor (according to supplier: AC-1 type to be used in non-inductive or slightly inductive applications) in my setup instead of mechanical relays proposed on the website. Is there anything against it? Do you think I should grab 30A at least?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
mtweeman
Joined: 10 Feb 2017 Posts: 29
|
Link Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok. It shouldn't be pushed to its limits I assume? I mean it's better to run it some Amps below rated capacity?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cockey
Joined: 01 Oct 2017 Posts: 1 Location: Lidköping Sweden
|
Link Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
barney the bear wrote: | Hello
I live in Sweden, not a 220-240V-country but more of a 230/400V-3-phase-country!
In a modern home here you will not find a 230V 30A wall outlet. Mostly there are a lot of 10A and a few 16A BUT a 3-phase 16A for the stove in the kitchen and maybe one in the garage or the cellar if you live in a house of your own.
That means the cable to the 3-phase-outlet have 5 leaders, 3 for each phase 230V, one neutral and one ground. If you measure the voltage between a phase and neutral it is 230V BUT between one phase and another it is 400V (!).
This gives you some advantages. An example: A 50A 240V outlet can give you 12000W for an element with one "loop". A 3-phase outlet with 16A on each phase (230V) can give you 11040W (48A) with an element with three "loops". In that case each phase "feeds" its "own loop" (phase and neutral).
But if you put all the phases together so they "feed" all the "loops" together the voltage is 400V and 48A gives you 19200W (!). In this case you do not use the neutral.
I think the ElectricBrewery-equipment need some more changes if you want to use all the possibilities over here. |
Im from Sweden to and I would love it if you could help me with some questions.
I will send you a PM. Thanks!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
BBKING
Joined: 29 Nov 2017 Posts: 2 Location: norway
|
Link Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
straight outta Norway here. I´m about to get a single phase 32A connection installed from my circuit box, but we´ve got two hot and one ground, no neutral, how do i do it?
sincerly Bjørnar
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
Link Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
BBKING wrote: | straight outta Norway here. I´m about to get a single phase 32A connection installed from my circuit box, but we´ve got two hot and one ground, no neutral, how do i do it?
sincerly Bjørnar |
Strange - I'm not sure, as Norway normally runs at 230V with no 110-120V available, which means there should only be one hot, one neutral, and one ground. So I can't explain what you're describing/seeing. What sort of setup do you have? What sort of voltage differentials do you have when you measure between the various lines? (Note that if there's any questions about this this is best left to your electrician to confirm/answer). Good luck!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
barney the bear
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 46 Location: Linköping, Sweden
|
Link Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Besides the 3-phase 230/400V system with 400V between two phases and 230V between one phase and neutral there is also an old 3-phase system in Norway with 230V between two phases and no neutral is used.
As I see it - a controlpanel that runs only on 220-240V can be used here with or without neutral - one hot and neutral or two hots.
Last edited by barney the bear on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
BBKING
Joined: 29 Nov 2017 Posts: 2 Location: norway
|
Link Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ok thank you. Im starting my build this weekend, so be prepared for more stupid questions
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
theafricanbrewer
Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Posts: 1
|
Link Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Can someone assist me with wiring my transformer primary and secondary in series? I'm not sure which terminals should be connected to each other.
*From the manufacturer: "primary windings which may be connected in series for 230V or parallel for 115V operation. The two independent secondary windings may be connected in series or parallel to give a wide range of output voltage and current options."
Here's a pic with the schematic.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
ludicrous_larry
Joined: 27 Dec 2018 Posts: 2 Location: Naples, Italy
|
Link Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kal wrote: | Hi Adam,
Ground should always be connected to the panel enclosure, backplane, kettles, and so forth. For safety reasons. NEVER bond the NEUTRAL to GROUND other than in your primary electrical panel (where your breakers are). Bonding anywhere else (such as in the control panel or an electrical sub-panel) should not be done.
You may certainly build a 240V panel using only 240V parts and use it in the US. You simply would not hook up or use the NEUTRAL at all as you don't need 120V. GROUND should be connected however.
Note that 240V pumps are harder to find here, hence the reason we use both 120V and 240V in the North American design.
Kal |
Kal,
Any suggestions for building a panel that will work for for either U.S. or Europe without any modifications? Work seems to take me abroad and then back stateside every 2 years or so. It looks like from the above that if I built the 240V panel in Europe when I get back stateside all I would have to change is the power chord. Is that correct?
I figured I would use 230V pumps to keep number of different voltages in the cabinet to a minimum.
Finally, having used utilized the same general design for years does anyone on the forum have any upgrades or modernizations to recommend?
I am truly envious of the basement 2 and gratious for all of the documentation you have put together & advice given?
Cheers,
Robb
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|