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Making a starter
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jimboh




Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Halifax NS


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Dead as a doornail!
Nothing happened by 4 hours after activation but I thought might as well try in dme.
12 hours later absolutely nothing happening.
Will pick up a new pack of 1968 today.
Quick question about stir plates and 1" stir bars.
I read somewhere (on here I think) about maximum stir being good. Something strange was happening when I turned mine all the way up.
It stopped stirring. I was wondering whether the bar perhaps was standing on end? As when I then turn it down, it would start to rattle again and stir once more.
It didn't stop immediately but after a couple of minutes. Might be a problem if it could do this at lower speeds unattended.
I checked mine every 10mins or so for the first hours and it was still stirring when I checked this morning.

Be interested to know if anyone has done anything about the noise? Its going to be a problem when the wife is about!
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like your stir bar flung off the magnet. Once you slowed the speed down the stir bar rattled back center on the magnet, then you were able to stir again. This is very common for my DIY stir plate. I don't know if yours is a store bought or built yourself but I would just slow the speed down so the stir bar stays put.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimboh wrote:
Dead as a doornail!
Nothing happened by 4 hours after activation but I thought might as well try in dme.
12 hours later absolutely nothing happening.

Given that the yeast is 5-6 months old, 4 hours after smacking isn't enough time to determine that it's dead. Same with 12 hours in DME on a stirplate. There's going to be some yeast alive in there. Given the age, it can take a few days for it to ramp up to the point that you notice something.

Kal

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jimboh




Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Halifax NS


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ok I will give it longer then. I bought another packet today so either way I should be ready to christen my ElectricBrewery in a few days!
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jimboh




Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Halifax NS


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you were right Kal. I finally have some action going on but what do I do now? How long do I wait for this first step to finish and then how do I know what the second step should be? I could select a date in the calculator that gives me at least a non zero cell count and use that.

How do you judge when you have enough yeast to proceed?
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

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PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimboh wrote:
Well you were right Kal. I finally have some action going on but what do I do now? How long do I wait for this first step to finish and then how do I know what the second step should be? I could select a date in the calculator that gives me at least a non zero cell count and use that.

How do you judge when you have enough yeast to proceed?


Turn off the stir plate and see how much yeast settles. If you have a nice layer, it's time to bump up!

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimboh wrote:
Well you were right Kal. I finally have some action going on but what do I do now? How long do I wait for this first step to finish...

You'll know that fermentation is done once the krausen (foam) drops. Usually the whole thing gets lighter in colour too. I usually leave it for another half day or so before throwing it in the fridge to let the yeast settle out. Then decant the wort (beer actually) on top before pitching the yeast, or stepping it up again.

jimboh wrote:
...and then how do I know what the second step should be?

The calculator tells you how much DME to use for the second step. It has multi-steps.

Quote:
How do you judge when you have enough yeast to proceed?

You don't judge. You use the calculator to tell you how much DME (how large of a starter you need) to make the amount of cells they deem appropriate. Sometimes more than one step is required. You always ferment to completion. When you do that you should have close to the amount of cells they calculated for you.

Kal

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jimboh




Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Halifax NS


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Does this look right Reply with quote

I left it running while I went out. It had become much lighter and there was a small ring of bubbles around the edge. Now it looks like this:
Does it look right? Ready for the next step?
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kal
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Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the krausen had built up and then completely dropped, and you left it a while longer, then it's pretty much done fermenting.

Kal

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jimboh




Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Halifax NS


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There wasn't really any 'head' like you get on the top of the fermenter, the wort just went from dark to very light, there was a rim of bubbles and that was that , this morning. This afternoon it seems to have all clumped up???

Edit: unless the krausen had built up and collapsed over the last 4 hrs.
Edit2: just switched it off and I have a 3/8 bed of clean white sediment on the bottom.
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then I don't know. Take a gravity reading if you're not sure.

Kal

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jimboh




Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Halifax NS


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What should the gravity be?

Perhaps I should just go step 2, The second step should be a lot more active if there are now lots of yeast cells shouldn't it?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimboh wrote:
What should the gravity be?

I've never measured the final gravity of a fermented ~1.040 starter. I'd imagine it's somewhere in the mid-single digits (?). Would depend on the the yeast, the type of DME used, etc. as a starter is simply beer. There's no "one" answer.

Quote:
Perhaps I should just go step 2, The second step should be a lot more active if there are now lots of yeast cells shouldn't it?

If the first step did indeed create a lot of new viable yeast then it should certainly start fermenting faster than the previous step that used ~5-6 month old yeast.

Kal

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jimboh




Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Halifax NS


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect you guys are getting fed up with my questions but yeast'ing is all new to me.
At the end of the first step I explained how the yeast? had clumped up.
After adding the cooled wort to the yeast for the second step and turning on the stir plate the flask was full of largish clumps.
After 3-4 hours the clumps had all broken down and there was a ring of foam, not much but looked like fermentation was occurring.
another 12 hours on and the ring of foam has gone and the yeast? has once again clumped up (looks like as in the gif above).
I have switched off the plate and will place in the fridge.

Is it normal for the yeast to clump up?
There is a bed of white settling out. Is this definitely yeast? (I used a Briess Golden Light Dry Malt Extract) or could it be the dry malt coming out of suspension?

IF it is yeast, does this look sufficient to pitch (going by the calculator I started at the lowest starting cell count as my actual date returned 0 cells)


I also note that there is still some activity as I see bubbles rising. Is it done or should I leave it longer?

I put it back on the stir plate and turned it on. The sediment had formed almost a solid mass. I allowed the stirrer to break it up somewhat. I need to split this between two fermenters. How can I do that with any accuracy if it is not in solution?

I'm considering decanting this into a 2litre container and start a new yeast batch with my April27 2017 wyeast 1969 just so I can see what a 'very viable' yeast culture behaves like.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimboh wrote:
Is it normal for the yeast to clump up?

Depends on the yeast. Some more than others. WY1968 is incredibly flocculant (settles out/clumps).

Quote:
There is a bed of white settling out. Is this definitely yeast? (I used a Briess Golden Light Dry Malt Extract) or could it be the dry malt coming out of suspension?

It's yeast. Unless you just threw DME into water. I'm assuming you boiled/dissolved it first? If yes, as soon as it dissolved it can't turn back into DME.

Quote:
IF it is yeast, does this look sufficient to pitch (going by the calculator I started at the lowest starting cell count as my actual date returned 0 cells)

No idea. What does the calculator say in terms of cells that should be produced. That's what I normally go by. Not what it looks like.

Quote:
I also note that there is still some activity as I see bubbles rising. Is it done or should I leave it longer?

Don't know. It may still be fermenting. If you don't think it's done, leave it longer.

Quote:
I put it back on the stir plate and turned it on. The sediment had formed almost a solid mass. I allowed the stirrer to break it up somewhat. I need to split this between two fermenters. How can I do that with any accuracy if it is not in solution?

If I want to split (say) a 4L starter into 2 fermenters I'll usually stir it up well and split it between two 2L flasks and let it settle out before decanting/adding to the fermenters. If you put equal volumes of wort (it's actually beer now) with yeast in suspension into 2 flasks you'll get nearly identical amounts of yeast settling out in each.

Kal

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jimboh




Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Halifax NS


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal.
The Calculator says 357 Billion.
1st Step 1L 3.6oz DME
2nd Step 1.5L 5.4oz DME
Final Cell count: 362 Billion
This is what I did, Yes DME boiled for 3 minutes.
So it must be yeast and I will split into 2 before placing in fridge.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

We have a new MAKING A YEAST STARTER article here: https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com/pages/making-a-yeast-starter

Enjoy!

Kal

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