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Water salt adjustments question
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tkdjim




Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Derby, Kansas

Drinking: Scotch Ale

Working on: Moose Druel


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Okay thanks Kal that does give me some food for thought..

I wasn't aware that the kit extracts and malt syrup pretty much set everything up. Guess i need to postpone water profile discussions until I am ready to do some All Grain Brewing.

BTW the SO4-S on the report is 25... I had multiplied it by 3 to obtain the 75 so i guess I should have shown that at the start.
It looks like my Na and CI are the main factors that are a lot higher in your Blond Ale profile. That said, would you think I would still need to do some RO cutting once I step over to the All Grain?

Thanks for your time Kal. i do appreciate your input.
tkdjim
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dried Malt Extract (DME) is wort from which the water has been completely removed.
Liquid Malt Extract (LME) is wort from which the water has been mostly removed.

In both cases, they go through the process of mashing and making unhopped wort, exactly like we do when we make all-grain beer. And just like when you make all-grain beer, making extract means that they worry about mash pH, what salts/ions they may add, what mash temp to use, and so forth. When you use DME or LME you have no control over any of these. When you use DME or LME you're just re-hydrating premade wort. This lack of control is one reason why brewers like to move on to all-grain. The other reason is that some styles of beer that generally are not as good when you try to make them with extract. These are usually the lighter/delicate beers. Removing and re-adding water from wort tends to screw things up. No different really than how freshly squeezed OJ tastes as compared to frozen OJ in a can to which you add 4-5 cans of water. You lose/destroy a bunch of the flavours whenever you dehydrate something.

tkdjim wrote:
It looks like my Na and CI are the main factors that are a lot higher in your Blond Ale profile.

Correct.

tkdjim wrote:
That said, would you think I would still need to do some RO cutting once I step over to the All Grain?

If you want to hit my recommended targets, yes. There's no way around it. That said, it doesn't mean you need to hit my recommended targets. There's no black and white answer to how you should be brewing. Make it both ways and decide for yourself. Wink

Kal

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tkdjim




Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Derby, Kansas

Drinking: Scotch Ale

Working on: Moose Druel


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Informative, Thanks Kal!

Yes I agree I'll need to make two batches and see what kind of differences I see, in your opinion what is a good way to make smaller batches so I don't end up with 5 gallons of brew with the higher Sodium and Chloride ?

Thx,
tkdjim
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question. How to make less beer really depends on your setup. Normally to make less beer you simply use less ingredients. Not all systems scale well depending on how big or small you plan on going. Good luck!

Kal

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tkdjim




Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Derby, Kansas

Drinking: Scotch Ale

Working on: Moose Druel


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no problem I just wondered he you had a technique to brew less than 5 gallons.
I would hate to test my tap water with a batch that was destined to go down the drain if it wasn't any good.
I will probably just use RO since we have a RO System in our house.
Thanks!
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dp Brewing Company




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 664
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes

Working on: Nothing


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tkdjim wrote:
no problem I just wondered he you had a technique to brew less than 5 gallons.
I would hate to test my tap water with a batch that was destined to go down the drain if it wasn't any good.
I will probably just use RO since we have a RO System in our house.
Thanks!


I know the feeling. I was very nervous the first time using salts. Being my beer (pale ales) were good before but weren't as good as the store sold Pale Ales. I followed Kal's instructions and took a leap of faith that it would turn out ok. The result was my beers are so much better now. Much more true to style. My water profile is perfect for Brown ales but not so much for lighter beers. I now use 25-50% distilled water and add the salts back in.

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tkdjim wrote:
no problem I just wondered he you had a technique to brew less than 5 gallons.

Nothing specific other than just using less ingredients. Your brewing software will be able to scale for you. As mentioned earlier, not all systems will scale well. I don't know what equipment you're brewing on, what beer you want to brew, or how small you plan on going so I can't comment on how well it would scale. Sorry!

Kal

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We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
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tkdjim




Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Derby, Kansas

Drinking: Scotch Ale

Working on: Moose Druel


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks dp Brewing Company that does boost my confidence knowing others have had the same apprehensions!
Brew on!
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tkdjim




Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Derby, Kansas

Drinking: Scotch Ale

Working on: Moose Druel


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Kal, that would be my next step is to get me a good Brewing Software to lean on.
I have seen your postings with others on that subject.
ThX
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