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Yeast_Whisperer
Joined: 09 Jul 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Clarksburg, MD
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:08 pm Post subject: Chilling Question - Gravity Feed? |
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Hi Kal,
I see that in your photos you show the counter-flow chiller mounted below the kettle and the fermenter on the floor. Your diagram shows the wort flowing from kettle to pump to chiller to fermenter. With this setup, is there a reason the wort needs to be pumped? Could it not flow into the chiller and then the fermenter using gravity only?
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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I have pumps but sometime do as you say and only use gravity.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Better, more consistent flow control. If gravity feeding may tend to go faster at the start and slows down as the weight is removed meaning you'd have to play with the valve/chilling water flow to have consistent chill. With a pump with valve the speed is consistent so less fiddling.
I'm not sure I'd be able to get fast enough flow just gravity feeding when the ground water's very cold (winter) and I want to flow fast.
Already have the pumps and all plumbing anyway. So there's no advantage to not using a pump during chilling on my design from what I can see. Is there a reason you're considering it? (I may be overlooking something)
Kal
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Yeast_Whisperer
Joined: 09 Jul 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Clarksburg, MD
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | Better, more consistent flow control. If gravity feeding may tend to go faster at the start and slows down as the weight is removed meaning you'd have to play with the valve/chilling water flow to have consistent chill. With a pump with valve the speed is consistent so less fiddling.
I'm not sure I'd be able to get fast enough flow just gravity feeding when the ground water's very cold (winter) and I want to flow fast.
Already have the pumps and all plumbing anyway. So there's no advantage to not using a pump during chilling on my design from what I can see. Is there a reason you're considering it? (I may be overlooking something)
Kal |
My new setup is nearly operational and will use two pumps. The reason I ask this question is I've been using a hop stopper for quite a while now and have been using a pump to move wort from kettle to chiller to fermenter. My experience with the hop stopper has been that toward the end of the transfer, the flow through the hop stopper slows significantly causing pump cavitation (even with the valve on the pump output nearly closed) that requires me to repeatedly stop flow from the pump until enough liquid escapes the kettle to allow the pump to continue without cavitating (usually for only moments at a time). I was wondering if gravity feed would be an advantage in this situation, as there'd be no cavitation issue.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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It's not the Hop Stopper slowing the flow - due to the efficient nature of the Hop Stopper, pumping too fast when the Hop Stopper gets exposed to air allows air to enter the filter screen from the top instead of wort entering from the bottom. This results in the Hop Stopper completely draining which in turn causes it to lose siphon. The solution is to slow down the pump rate to a very slow trickle as soon as the Hop Stopper becomes exposed to air.
Watch for bubbles in the hose leaving the Boil Kettle as the sign that the siphon is getting ready to break. If this happens, immediately CLOSE the Wort Pump valve for approximately 10 seconds to allow wort to refill the Hop Stopper screen cavity. Then slowly OPEN the Wort Pump valve to finish draining the boil kettle at a reduced flow rate.
I suppose you could also stop using a pump completely - that would lessen the likelihood of pumping too fast.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Yeast_Whisperer
Joined: 09 Jul 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Clarksburg, MD
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Kal. I've tried to do more or less as you've described. Perhaps I'll figure it out on my next batch. If not, I can always try gravity.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11122 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Yeast_Whisperer
Joined: 09 Jul 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Clarksburg, MD
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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dp Brewing Company wrote: | I have pumps but sometime do as you say and only use gravity. |
Thanks DP. How does your experience with gravity compare with pumping?
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yeast_Whisperer wrote: | dp Brewing Company wrote: | I have pumps but sometime do as you say and only use gravity. |
Thanks DP. How does your experience with gravity compare with pumping? |
Similar to Kal stated. It slows down some as the BK is reduced. I think the flow is fast enough for me the whole time. I've actually had to slightly close the ball valve at the CFC when doing this.
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Yeast_Whisperer
Joined: 09 Jul 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Clarksburg, MD
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks DP.
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Yeast_Whisperer
Joined: 09 Jul 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Clarksburg, MD
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | Let us know how it goes!
Kal |
I used my new setup for the first time yesterday (new control panel, electric BK and electric HERMS) and the new equipment performed flawlessly (thank you Kal). Cooling the wort through my counter flow chiller using gravity worked very well. The flow was easy to control and the natural slowing of the flow as the level in the kettle decreased was not an issue at all, since I planned to slow the flow way down to keep the hop stopper from losing vacuum. This worked very well and was the best experience I've had with the hop stopper to date.
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dp Brewing Company
Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 664 Location: Midwest
Drinking: Chocolate Taco, Raspberry Mango Cider, American X, Sandy Dunes
Working on: Nothing
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Yeast_Whisperer wrote: | kal wrote: | Let us know how it goes!
Kal |
I used my new setup for the first time yesterday (new control panel, electric BK and electric HERMS) and the new equipment performed flawlessly (thank you Kal). Cooling the wort through my counter flow chiller using gravity worked very well. The flow was easy to control and the natural slowing of the flow as the level in the kettle decreased was not an issue at all, since I planned to slow the flow way down to keep the hop stopper from losing vacuum. This worked very well and was the best experience I've had with the hop stopper to date. |
Awesome to hear! Thanks for the update.
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Hangovers hurt....but good memories last forever!
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