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Gas / Beer Line Diameter

 
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fseider



Joined: 10 May 2013
Posts: 156
Location: Two Naked Frogs Brewery; Reading, PA (USA); Interests: Beer, Frogs, Steampunk, Being Naked


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Gas / Beer Line Diameter Reply with quote


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Seems getting a straight recommendation on this is not as easy as I thought. Bottom line, I need a solid suggestion as to line diameter for both the gas and beer. My setup:


8 Keg keezer. Taps will be no more than 4 feet from keezer collar, @ 2 feet max higher.

I intend to use 8 Micromatic secondary regulators, and a mix of 8 Perlick 630SS / 650SS taps.

20 lb CO2 bottle


Suggestion as to line sizes (Inside Diameter) to go with?

Thanks,

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Two Naked Frogs Brewery, Winery, & Meadery
Reading, PA
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dp Brewing Company



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 658
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Black Sheep NEIPA, Rye Not Today, Kick of the Irish

Working on: RIS Barrel Aged


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5/16" ID Gas
3/16" ID Beer


Gas size doesn't matter, just what fits on your fittings tight. Most gas fittings are either 1/4" or 5/16".

Beer size matters. It depends on how long of lines you are running, how much higher the spout is above the centerline of the keg, what psi you are running (which depends on the temp of the cooler). Here is a good link to help figure it all out.

http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

With all that said, if your under 10' I would go with 3/16" ID


Last edited by dp Brewing Company on Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ozarks Mountain Brew



Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't installed it yet but I bought Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra (3/16) 50', I here theirs other types too
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itsnotrequired



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 169
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gas line isn't that big a deal what you use. the red 5/16" inside diameter tube is often what you see on commercial setups but it is bulky hose with a 9/16" outside diameter. i went with 1/4" inside diameter bevlex clear pvc tubing for my gas tubing, works fine. it is also a bit cheaper than the red stuff.

for beer lines, i went with the accuflex bev-seal ultra barrier tubing. this is the 'fancy stuff' that is much less permeable than the pvc tubing and less susceptible to retaining odors/staining. it has much less resistance than pvc tubing so you need to use a comparatively longer length of tubing to avoid foaming issues.

and that gets to the main issue with beer lines and sizing. it is a function of line material, line diameter, height difference between keg/faucet and keg pressure. it really comes down to pour times and foaming. increase line length and foaming goes down but the time it takes to pour a pint goes up. increase diameter and flow rate goes up but so does foaming. they all play together so it isn't as simple as 'use x diameter and y length'. best site i've seen for determining length is below:

http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/
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itsnotrequired



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 169
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozarks Mountain Brew wrote:
I haven't installed it yet but I bought Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra (3/16) 50', I here theirs other types too


did you get the quick-connect fittings? these are a must in my opinion. the tubing is very stiff compared to pvc tubing and lots of horror stories out there about folks trying to get the tubing onto barbs. i went with the quick-connects from the get-go, amazing how fast i was able to hook everything up.
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Ozarks Mountain Brew



Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 737
Location: The Ozark Mountains of Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can role it up in a loop to increase the length too, its pretty ridged and needs to be wormed up and stretched on with pliers
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Last edited by Ozarks Mountain Brew on Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run a kettle half full of water to heat it up to 200F or so, then turn it off. Then stick the end of the Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra (or similar) tubing into the water for a few seconds before pushing it on the barb (wearing gloves). Works great. Did my previous bar setup (4 taps) this way, as well as my current bar (8 taps) and kegerator (2 taps).

Kal

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itsnotrequired



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 169
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Run a kettle half full of water to heat it up to 200F or so, then turn it off. Then stick the end of the Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra (or similar) tubing into the water for a few seconds before pushing it on the barb (wearing gloves). Works great. Did my previous bar setup (4 taps) this way, as well as my current bar (8 taps) and kegerator (2 taps).

Kal


or get the quick connect fitting. cut to length, stick in end, done. no heating, no clamps, no fuss, no muss. Mr. Green
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dp Brewing Company



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 658
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Black Sheep NEIPA, Rye Not Today, Kick of the Irish

Working on: RIS Barrel Aged


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hair dryer also works awesome.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10077
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

itsnotrequired wrote:
or get the quick connect fitting. cut to length, stick in end, done. no heating, no clamps, no fuss, no muss. Mr. Green

Do you have a link so that I can see what you mean by this product? Thanks!

Kal

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itsnotrequired



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 169
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:

Do you have a link so that I can see what you mean by this product? Thanks!

Kal


http://www.birdmanbrewing.com/tubing/

others sell as well. they make two connectors, one for the shank and one for the disconnect at the keg. the connectors are threaded on without the need of any teflon tape. tubing is inserted fully and then pulled out slightly to 'set' the grip. to remove the tubing, push the tubing back in toward the connector, hold the 'grip ring' in place and pull out. no need for any clamps, heating, etc.
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fseider



Joined: 10 May 2013
Posts: 156
Location: Two Naked Frogs Brewery; Reading, PA (USA); Interests: Beer, Frogs, Steampunk, Being Naked


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the responses!

I did come across some good accolades for the "John Guest Acetal Copolymer Tube Fittings". Was going to ask in a followup post on these, but this seems to be what itsnotrequired is referring to. Anyone else with experience on these?

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Two Naked Frogs Brewery, Winery, & Meadery
Reading, PA
"What's in your goblet?!"
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Model 30A; SN 0130
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itsnotrequired



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 169
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also be aware that there are about ten billion different john guest fittings out there, all different shapes, sizes and configurations. i ordered mine from birdman since they take the guesswork out of it. similar brew supply places can offer the same. i'm sure they can be found cheaper on ebay or similar, just be real careful you are getting the correct sizes.
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fseider



Joined: 10 May 2013
Posts: 156
Location: Two Naked Frogs Brewery; Reading, PA (USA); Interests: Beer, Frogs, Steampunk, Being Naked


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

itsnotrequired wrote:
also be aware that there are about ten billion different john guest fittings out there, all different shapes, sizes and configurations. i ordered mine from birdman since they take the guesswork out of it. similar brew supply places can offer the same. i'm sure they can be found cheaper on ebay or similar, just be real careful you are getting the correct sizes.


Trust me, that's the first thing I noticed! Can be a daunting task. And thanks for the reminder.

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Fred Seider
Two Naked Frogs Brewery, Winery, & Meadery
Reading, PA
"What's in your goblet?!"
---
Model 30A; SN 0130
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