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Kal's Recipes with BeerSmith

 
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jphussey



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 167



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Kal's Recipes with BeerSmith Reply with quote


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When Kal's recipes say 95% Efficiency, does that correlate to Brewhouse efficiency in BeerSmith? I did a quick test of the recipe for the Electric Pale Ale and the only way I could get my numbers to match what he posted (O.G., specifically) was to set my brewhouse efficiency to 95% with a 12G Batch Size.

Does this jive with anyone else's experience? Obviously I'll use my own brewhouse efficiency and scale the recipe accordingly, but just curious what others are doing with those numbers.

-Jason
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Kal's Recipes with BeerSmith Reply with quote

jphussey wrote:
When Kal's recipes say 95% Efficiency, does that correlate to Brewhouse efficiency in BeerSmith?

When I say 95% efficiency I mean mash efficiency and mash efficiency isn't the same as brewhouse efficiency.

Sounds like beersmith may not be using the term brewhouse efficiency correctly or more likely you haven't entered any loss numbers into beersmith? Brewhouse efficiency only makes sense when various losses are entered - see this diagram: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewing-efficiency-chart/#a_aid=5982783965026

Are there places in BeerSmith to enter volume numbers like "amount lost in boil kettle" or "amount lost in fermenter"?

If they're all zero then maybe it works out the same? (I don't know as I don't use Beersmith nor do I calculate my brewhouse efficiency - most people do not).

Cheers,

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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jphussey



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 167



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there are places to enter volumes like that.

I assume you mean conversion + lauter efficiency when you say 'mash efficiency' which would be synonymous with pre-boil efficiency?

BeerSmith uses BrewHouse efficiency according to that chart; the efficiency into the ferementer. Which is different than post-boil efficiency as it takes into account the loss due to trub, etc., and only uses the volume in the fermenter.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jphussey wrote:
I assume you mean conversion + lauter efficiency when you say 'mash efficiency' which would be synonymous with pre-boil efficiency.

Correct

Kal

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itsnotrequired



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 169
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have made several of kal's recipie on my system, using beersmith for recipe formulation. the efficiency number on the beersmith recipe design tab is brewhouse efficiency. i have mine set at 80% but that number only means something if the variables that go into calculating that number are known. for my system:
    0.25 gal 'lauter tun losses' (under 'equipment profile' tab)
    0.5 gal 'loss to trub and chiller' (under 'equipment profile' tab)
    1 gal 'fermenter loss' (under 'equipment profile' tab)
    0.25 gal 'tun deadspace' (under 'mash' tab)
    11 gal batch volume

this works out to a mash efficiency of 83.6%. i can't recall my grain mill gap setting off the top of my head but it is something like .042. i also perform a mashout and typically sparge for 75 minutes. comparing some recipes right now, this calculated lower efficiency results in about 10% or so more grain being used when compared to kal's numbers. that works out to just a few bucks more per batch depending on the grain bill, i'm not going to sweat it. i have yet to fool around with the crush to try to improve efficiency but just am not that worried about it.

with that approach above, i hit all of the numbers kal publishes for og, color, etc. and end up with two full 5 gallon kegs of finished product and some leftover beer, maybe a quart or so depending on how much dry hopping was done.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

itsnotrequired wrote:
that works out to just a few bucks more per batch depending on the grain bill, i'm not going to sweat it. i have yet to fool around with the crush to try to improve efficiency but just am not that worried about it.

That's the suggested approach. Find the number(s) that work for you and stick with them, and don't worry about it. At homebrew levels, consistency is more important than trying to maximize any sort of efficiency.

Kal

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itsnotrequired



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 169
Location: central wi


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first beer i brewed was kal's english mild and i used the 95% efficiency numbers. beer tasted fine but was only about 2.2% abv, no way was i getting 95% efficiency. second beer was kal's two-hearted clone. i used an efficiency value of 85% for calculations and only missed the final abv by a half percent or so. third beer was kal's fuller's esb clone and i used 80% for the calculations, everything came out fine. used that efficiency for the next several batches and all was well.

exception was the russian imperial stout where i pushed the efficiency down to 72% based on the huge grain bill. that missed by almost a whole percent alcohol so i'll probably go with 65% efficiency when i make that again.
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dp Brewing Company



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 658
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Black Sheep NEIPA, Rye Not Today, Kick of the Irish

Working on: RIS Barrel Aged


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not have a clone. I use a SS BrewTech Mash Tun so I can't compare to the numbers that Kal gets. What I can say is, I made one simple change and my efficiency went from 65% to 85%. That change was to sloooooow down my sparge. I now take about 60-90 minutes to sparge (depends on how well I can regulate the ball valves). That made a world of difference.
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Master



Joined: 30 Jan 2016
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Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Liquid Schwartz Schwarzbier, Stinky Porter, Spiced Apple Cider

Working on: AbbyNormal Glutton Free Framboise Lambic, Ich Bin Ein Berliner Weisse, Pineapple Cider


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. I was sparging too fast.

I was a batch-sparger pre electric, and I had to set timers to make sure I'm not going too fast. Gallon every 8 minutes or so.
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