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FAQ: Adapting for a 30 gallon/1 bbl (or larger) setup
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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pmcint01 wrote:
If I were making a second panel in order to run another set of elements simultaneously and I decide not to install the Volt and Amp meters, do I still need the 50A shunt?

No. The shunt is only used to tell the amp meter how much current is being pulled. If you do not use a amp meter, the shunt is not required. Simply wire the high power wire from the power in receptacle directly to the power in contactor.

Kal

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pmcint01



Joined: 02 Feb 2015
Posts: 20



PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I would simply run a 14ga wire from the number 1 on the Power in contactor to the fuse holder and then to the hot bus?


Thanks for your help.

Paul
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmcint01 wrote:
So I would simply run a 14ga wire from the number 1 on the Power in contactor to the fuse holder and then to the hot bus?

Yes.

Kal

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BigMike



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 6
Location: Downingtown, PA

Drinking: Sierra Madre Pale Ale, Pliny Clone

Working on: Waldo Lake Amber


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:13 am    Post subject: 14 gauge Neutral connection to 50amp power-in connector Reply with quote

Apologies if I missed it somewhere, or if I'm reading the diagram incorrectly...

But the 14 gauge Neutral wire does not make solid connection with the 50amp California Style connector included in the control panel kit. After tightening, the wire pulls right out.

I had a blue 14g spade crimp-connector in my toolbox, and that seems to make good purchase in the connection, but I'm curious about using the 14g neutral wire connection from the bus to the 50amp connector, which was designed for 6 gauge wire connections and won't hold the 14g alone.

Diagram:




Connector with W closed as far as it will go, still too large of a gap for stripped 14g wire:






Has anyone else tackled this issue in a different/better way?


Thanks,
Mike
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 14 gauge Neutral connection to 50amp power-in connector Reply with quote

BigMike wrote:
But the 14 gauge Neutral wire does not make solid connection with the 50amp California Style connector included in the control panel kit. After tightening, the wire pulls right out.

Hi Mike - I've asked the manufacturer to chime in on this. They've built hundreds of these so there definitely has to be a way. I don't have one of these receptacles in front of me, but usually when you tighten down any of these sorts of receptacles the wire is pinched between two blades of of brass - you can see one of them in the picture on the white hole - the other is down lower? What I'm getting at is are you sure you're putting the wire in the right spot between the plates and not just between one plate and the plastic wall?

Kal

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BigMike



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 6
Location: Downingtown, PA

Drinking: Sierra Madre Pale Ale, Pliny Clone

Working on: Waldo Lake Amber


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 14 gauge Neutral connection to 50amp power-in connector Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I don't have one of these receptacles in front of me, but usually when you tighten down any of these sorts of receptacles the wire is pinched between two blades of of brass - you can see one of them in the picture on the white hole - the other is down lower? What I'm getting at is are you sure you're putting the wire in the right spot between the plates and not just between one plate and the plastic wall?

Kal



Yep, the set screw tightens a rounded shoe up against the brass blade:



With the cover off:




And, well, I hadn't checked the manual until you mentioned contacting the manufacturer...


Quote:
"The inlet is designed for #10 - #4."


Looks like 14g won't work here, at least not to mfg spec.





I considered scaling up to 10g wire, but the 10gauge (yellow) spade/fork connector won't work in the bus bar
However, the male connector on the 14g holds well.

Mike
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike - good pictures. Best we wait for Mike of Spike Innovations to chime in on this. They've built hundreds of these and will offer suggestions. Doubling up 2-3 wires (twisted together) that go to the NEUTRAL bus is one option.

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Thanks Mike - good pictures. Best we wait for Mike of Spike Innovations to chime in on this. They've built hundreds of these and will offer suggestions. Doubling up 2-3 wires (twisted together) that go to the NEUTRAL bus is one option.

Got this note back from Mike of Spike Innovations:

"I double up the wire in that spot, one goes to the neutral bus and the other jumps over to the pumps. Twisting them together before inserting helps to beef them up as well, strip at least 3/4 to ensure good contact."

That's what I figured. Try that out and let us know how it goes.

Kal

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GLRRA47



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 41
Location: Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal - wiring my 50 A panel and I have a quick question. The 50 A adaptation notes:

"The POWER KEY switch was previously wired directly to the POWER IN RELAY coil (per the POWER INPUT wiring diagram above). This wire must be removed otherwise the interlock feature will be bypassed and the control panel will power up regardless of how the three other switches are set."

*The last page of the adaptation has a picture showing a black 14 GA wire going from the hot #1 Y side of the contactor to the power key switch. Am I to leave it as the picture shows or remove it as noted in the quote above. (It's not coming from the "coil", so I suspect I wire as the picture shows?

Thanks
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GLRRA47 wrote:
Hi Kal - wiring my 50 A panel and I have a quick question. The 50 A adaptation notes:

"The POWER KEY switch was previously wired directly to the POWER IN RELAY coil (per the POWER INPUT wiring diagram above). This wire must be removed otherwise the interlock feature will be bypassed and the control panel will power up regardless of how the three other switches are set."

*The last page of the adaptation has a picture showing a black 14 GA wire going from the hot #1 Y side of the contactor to the power key switch. Am I to leave it as the picture shows or remove it as noted in the quote above. (It's not coming from the "coil", so I suspect I wire as the picture shows?

Hi!

Correct. The wires are not the same. Wire as per the instructions/diagrams. These are different wires. So both the text and the diagrams are correct.

In the first paragraph you quoted we're talking about a wire going to the coil of the POWER IN RELAY (contactor).

In your second paragraph you're asking about a wire connected to power input side of the the POWER IN RELAY (contactor). That's not the coil. So it's a different wire.

Kal

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GLRRA47



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 41
Location: Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it. Thanks for the fast reply!
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GLRRA47



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 41
Location: Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, the 50 A adaptation (on the picture showing how to wire - in the shunt), does show a 14 GA black wire going from the "coil" left side of the power in contactor - to the top of the NO power key switch. That's OK - even though it is connected to the coil? (The safe start wiring picture doesn't show that wire - in fact it shows the wire from the coil going to the interlock relay?)

So, do I follow both pictures and run one 14 GA wire from the coil side of the power in contactor to the top of the power key switch and one to the #3 spot on the interlock relay?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 50A diagrams in these instructions in this thread are meant to replace those from the 30A standard build.

The safe start is optional in all builds so the wiring in the safe start is contradictory, or a change, to what was done in previous diagrams. This is normal. You can completely skip the safe start if you like and have a functional panel.

Wire per the diagrams, in order, and then if you'd like to include the safe start, some of the previous wiring will be undone/replaced as per the instructions for the safe start.

Please note that it is important that you still read the instructions for our standard 30A control panel build to make sure nothing important is missed. Often hints, tips or caveats are given. Do not build only using the wiring diagrams and instructions in this thread. You will most likely miss things.

Kal

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GLRRA47



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 41
Location: Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - I've been reading / following the 30 A instructions, but didn't realize the safe start was an optional set-up that would require removal of some previously installed wire. Make more sense now that I understand that.

Thanks
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries - good luck with the rest of your build!

Kal

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Creepy



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 130
Location: North Chicago Burbs


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, random quick question for you... approximately how much does the pre-built 50A 30+ gallon panel weight? Looking at articulating TV mounts for it now. Thanks.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Creepy! Not random at all - see our order page here for specs: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel

Weight: Approximately 42 lbs (30A panel) or 45 lbs (50A panel)
Dimensions: 18-1/2" H x 16" W x 9-1/8" D (470 x 407 x 232 mm)
Shipping box dimensions (assembled): 23" x 20" x 15" (584 x 508 x 381 mm)
Shipping box dimensions (DIY kit): 17" x 17" x 10" (432 x 432 x 254 mm)

Kal

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Creepy



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 130
Location: North Chicago Burbs


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal. Apparently I'm just learning to read (should have looked a bit closer). Mug
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9879
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of information on this site - it's easy to miss stuff. Wink Good luck!

Kal

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themoose



Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 11
Location: 60069


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question, planning on starting my build soon. My plan is to start a 2 barrel nanobrewery a year or 2 down the road. My question is this: can I make 10-20 gallon batches in the meantime using the blichmann 55 gallon kettles with the extensions? I need to perfect my recipes but don't want to test them 62 gallons at a time. I also don't want to buy 20 gallon kettles and then have to upgrade them in a year unless there is no other choice. Thanks for any insight.
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